We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Someone is using our business paperwork!
Options

Becles
Posts: 13,184 Forumite


My husband and me run a mobile disco business. When someone books with us, we send them an event questionnaire to fill it. It asks for a rough timetable for the event, what music you like, what you don't like, what we should wear, etc. It helps them get the disco they want, and helps us plan the event better and buy in any "must have" music that we don't already have.
Last year we were doing regular work for a local sporting venue in their hospitality suites, and supplied them with the questionnaire to pass on when they got bookings. It has our business name and contact details so the party organiser can contact us direct if needed.
However, due to a number of problems with the sporting venue, we refused to work for them again. Mainly they didn't pay us, and passed on incorrect information which meant we were setting up our gear in the wrong rooms, or the worst one was thanking guests for attending David's birthday party, then after seeing many puzzled looks, he said his name was John
This morning I recieved a questionnaire in the post that didn't tally up with any of our bookings. I've rang the person on the form. Apparantly the sporting venue is still using our form although the person should have sent the form back to the venue rather than direct to us.
I'm really annoyed as my husband designed the form for our business use only and they have no rights to still be using it. We are also incredibly concerned that people think they are booking our disco, when it isn't us. We get most of our bookings through guests who have already attended one of our events, or word of mouth. What if whoever the sporting venue are using is rubbish, and people think it's our company that is being represented?
The sporting venue first denied using the form, and then said we gave it to them so they can do what they like with it?
Where do we stand now, as we don't want them to use our form?
Last year we were doing regular work for a local sporting venue in their hospitality suites, and supplied them with the questionnaire to pass on when they got bookings. It has our business name and contact details so the party organiser can contact us direct if needed.
However, due to a number of problems with the sporting venue, we refused to work for them again. Mainly they didn't pay us, and passed on incorrect information which meant we were setting up our gear in the wrong rooms, or the worst one was thanking guests for attending David's birthday party, then after seeing many puzzled looks, he said his name was John

This morning I recieved a questionnaire in the post that didn't tally up with any of our bookings. I've rang the person on the form. Apparantly the sporting venue is still using our form although the person should have sent the form back to the venue rather than direct to us.
I'm really annoyed as my husband designed the form for our business use only and they have no rights to still be using it. We are also incredibly concerned that people think they are booking our disco, when it isn't us. We get most of our bookings through guests who have already attended one of our events, or word of mouth. What if whoever the sporting venue are using is rubbish, and people think it's our company that is being represented?
The sporting venue first denied using the form, and then said we gave it to them so they can do what they like with it?
Where do we stand now, as we don't want them to use our form?
Here I go again on my own....
0
Comments
-
have you put a copywright of your business name on the bottom or anywhere of your form, also are they using just a straight copy of the form or changed it.
I dont think there is anything you can do unless of course they are using your business name then that may be an issue you can take action on.
BethI am responsible me, myself and I alone I am not the keeper others thoughts and words.0 -
I would go to see the people at the club and explain the issue, tell them you will have to publish a disclaimer in the local press indicating that you have no connections with the place and anyone booking your services via this club will not be getting the real deal.
If all else fails a strongly worded letter by a local solicitor might be money well spent to protect your reputation.0 -
lemontart wrote:have you put a copywright of your business name on the bottom or anywhere of your form, also are they using just a straight copy of the form or changed it.
I dont think there is anything you can do unless of course they are using your business name then that may be an issue you can take action on.
The form doesn't have copyright on it. We know they must be printing/copying it themselves as we always send it out on one double sided sheet, and the one that came back was two one sided sheets stapled together.
The form they are sending out has our business logo and contact details on. The man I spoke to yesterday was under the impression he was booking our business. He had already visited our website and viewed our rig in action, so was looking forward to it. (We've spent a fortune on lighting effects, so it does look impressive!). He was disappointed to realise he isn't getting us after all.Here I go again on my own....0 -
nearlyrich wrote:I would go to see the people at the club and explain the issue, tell them you will have to publish a disclaimer in the local press indicating that you have no connections with the place and anyone booking your services via this club will not be getting the real deal.
If all else fails a strongly worded letter by a local solicitor might be money well spent to protect your reputation.
Thanks for that. It's a good idea publishing the disclaimer.
I also thought of borrowing my parents address and enquiring about booking a party there, just to see what information gets sent out.Here I go again on my own....0 -
Becles wrote:The form doesn't have copyright on it. We know they must be printing/copying it themselves as we always send it out on one double sided sheet, and the one that came back was two one sided sheets stapled together.
The form they are sending out has our business logo and contact details on. The man I spoke to yesterday was under the impression he was booking our business. He had already visited our website and viewed our rig in action, so was looking forward to it. (We've spent a fortune on lighting effects, so it does look impressive!). He was disappointed to realise he isn't getting us after all.
that is disgusting - fooling customers like that - local paper sounds like a good idea.0 -
See what Citizans Advice say before going to a solicitor.
If needs be they will advise to goto one but their free advice is better than paying a solicitor if there was no need.:wave: Smile, you only get one life, LIVE IT.0 -
i think the idea about borrowing your parents house and trying to book a party would be good, although you will most likely have to pay a cancellation fee if it isnt you company so be carefull. but let us know how it goes.Like what I said? click thanks!:rotfl: :rotfl:
100th Post : 31st July 2006
200th Post : 10th September 2006
300th Post : 6th January 2007
300th Post : 12th April 20070 -
I think you may find that you have 'intellectual copyright' if the form wa designed from scratch by yourselves
Not sure how / where you stand legally from it though?
i had a case recently where an ex employee copied the business card i designed when she left our employ
i wrote a very nice letter asking her to stop using it as the 'intellectual copyright' belonged to me and not them!!
Think it runs somewhere alongside the fashion industry whereby differing fashion houses tend to market the same type of prints.... they get around this by the fact there has to be a total of 7 differences (no matter how small) between there item and the original item
hope this helps... best thing is take legal advice
Regards
Pete0 -
I hope you've managed to stop them, but if not, I hope I can help with this a bit - I did law at university and one of my specialisms was intellectual property and copyright law.
(This was 1995-1998, so some things may have changed, but I suspect the majority will have stayed the same, and certainly the facts as apply here). I'm not a lawyer now.
As I see it you have two avenues to pursue.
1) They have breached your copyright by using your form. Contrary to popular belief, you do not have to write copyright on something to make it copyrighted. It is copyright by virtue of your having created it from scratch. This text I have written is copyright, for example. People write 'copyright' etc. on things to make it clear to people that they don't want it copied. You could start doing this, thoughusually in the format copyright (c) xadoc 2007. The date is to establish when the copyright runs from - the length of copyright at the moment is the author(s) life - of whoever lives longest +70 years, though it used to be less.
2) I believe you also have legitimate claim of 'passing off' (this is a legal term, despite it sounding a bit rubbish). This is where someone pretends to be your company in order to use your goodwill and the reputation you have built for their own gain. You'd need to prove this to win damages in court - but sounds like you already have a witness!
I'd start by writing a strongly worded letter. Explain that you have become aware that they are using your paperwork. Explain they are breaching your copyright by doing so and any forms would need to be 'substantially altered' before you felt this were not true (this is to prevent them from using it with your details tipp-exed out. Even if it was 80% the same form, the courts would most likely decide it was a rip-off - especially as we know they got it from you and did not create it independently - but don't write that bit).
Explain also that you are seriously concerned by their attempts at 'passing off' . They are marketing their venue as if it uses your services, which it does not. Explain that you have already had one confused customer who thought that he 'had' booked your service, and was disappointed, which clearly indicates that even if they don't intend to be passing off, the effect is nonetheless the same. Explain that you are concerned for the effects on your business, and believe you may have already lost money and goodwill by their attempts to deceive customers into believing that their enterprise is actually yours.
Finish it with a concluding paragraph saying that you request that they 'cease and desist' the above within 28 days (best to give a time limit, and a reasonable one at that) or you see no other option but to pursue this matter further.
Keep the letter reasonably short. Don't bother explaining your points much more than I have above, there's no need.
PM me if you don't get any luck and we'll look at the next step.
EDIT: Sorry, should've said, send the letter by recorded delivery and keep a copy and evidence of its arrival.0 -
From my view as a musician, I would see it as follows:
We all have booking forms, times, venues extras reqd etc....no real query there (but if its a copy of yours...naughty)
Using your name or logo on the form?.....major No-No, as our learned friend has stated "passing off" is not good. It brings into play a number of things, your reputation, insurance problems, loss of income, possible tax implications...great if we could work under someone elses name for when we do the tax returns....lol....
I would like to know who they are actually using to do the work ... its a bit unethical to perform as someone else, get paid, avoid tax, insurance, possibly generate bad press.
I wonder could xadoc advise if you can go to small claims for lost earnings, possible mis representation and associated bad publicity if the gig is poor. Do you have any requirement to advise the tax office that somone else is trading under your name....think about it, even if they only do 30 gigs in the year and your fee was only £250....thats a lot of tax to pay for money you didn't actually receive!
While most musicians I know are ethical in the way they operate, I also know that in this business there are quite a few bad ones!
Signing somone elses name and address on a receipt for payment, apologising when the booked act didn't turn up and they were the replacement (which is what I suspect has been happening to you), all money made being tax free and better still, when the tax man comes looking the paper trail leads to you. Even worse when the surrogate band (yes I'm a Pink Floyd fan) has a reasonably good gig and gets more bookings from it!!!!
Nice option would be a big apologetic advert in the local press saying that the service they quote is not for you, but if people want to book you, has all your details as well....they of course would pay for the advert....
finally....who is doing your gig....make sure they pay your tax bill, get a % commission off them in the meantime, and a % for lost work...all in all the other artist deserves a comeuppance....what they are doing is dirty....and don't say they didn't know!I'm now a retired teacher... hooray ...:j
Those who can do, those who can't, come to me for lessons:cool:0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply

Categories
- All Categories
- 350.8K Banking & Borrowing
- 253K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453.5K Spending & Discounts
- 243.8K Work, Benefits & Business
- 598.6K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.8K Life & Family
- 257.1K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards