Over-indebtedness in britain

abaxas

ukcarper wrote: »

Probably because they don’t I would like to think that most people would accept that some form of benefit system needs to exist but just because you vote Labour it doesn’t mean you think people have a right to spend a lifetime on benefits.

This was discussed on here..

Someone produced a chart of income/benifits -vs- constituencies. The correlation between benifits/tax credits and voting labour was amazing.

Turkeys dont vote for Christmas.

carolt

ukcarper wrote: »

Probably because they don’t I would like to think that most people would accept that some form of benefit system needs to exist but just because you vote Labour it doesn’t mean you think people have a right to spend a lifetime on benefits.

Well said - I do think a safety net needs to exist - I believe this passionately.

I don't think a safety net is the same thing as an excuse not to work at all if you're perfectly fit and able to - just lazy.

I don't think it's terribly difficult to distinguish the two; I do think Generali is wilfully confusing the two in yet another attempt to discredit the left (or source of all evil, as he prefers to view it ).

carolt

abaxas wrote: »

This was discussed on here..

Someone produced a chart of income/benifits -vs- constituencies. The correlation between benifits/tax credits and voting labour was amazing.

Turkeys dont vote for Christmas.

Yes, but it's not as if only people on benefits vote Labour is it - in fact statistics show that people on benefits usually don't bother to vote at all. Too lazy to work = also to lazy to vote.

The vast majority of Labour supporters are not onbenefits - but are now as fed up with the failures of the benefit system to protect the needy but not trap the greedy/lazy into a life on benefits as everyone else. It's one of the reasons why traditional Labour supporters like myself won't be voting Labour this time.

lemonjelly

Without wishing to be a killjoy or anything, I don't understand how recent posts relate to the levels of personal debt held in the UK & how we address these issues?

iB1

lemonjelly wrote: »

Without wishing to be a killjoy or anything, I don't understand how recent posts relate to the levels of personal debt held in the UK & how we address these issues?

It always ends up about politics in the end...

lostinrates

lemonjelly wrote: »

Without wishing to be a killjoy or anything, I don't understand how recent posts relate to the levels of personal debt held in the UK & how we address these issues?

Politics is deeply at the heart of how we address these issues, or how we sustain them and how they have developed.

lemonjelly

iB1 wrote: »

It always ends up about politics in the end...

lostinrates wrote: »

Politics is deeply at the heart of how we address these issues, or how we sustain them and how they have developed.

I see where you're coming from, but the above have strayed more into a debate about political ideologies, rather than politics or how to actually address the issues at hand.

If we start rambling on about ideologies & their foundations we'll never get anywhere I fear!

lostinrates

lemonjelly wrote: »

I see where you're coming from, but the above have strayed more into a debate about political ideologies, rather than politics or how to actually address the issues at hand.

If we start rambling on about ideologies & their foundations we'll never get anywhere I fear!

without appreciating the ideology, how can one solution be put forward over another? I do agree LJ, its going here they all go...but there is reason for that. A you saw on another thread, I'm interested in how the proponents of different policies, those who strongly argue for one thing, then don't necessarily follow this through to other things...with different impacts on their lives..I wonder if one reason is nt enough appreciation of ideologies? It would be for me I think.

lemonjelly

I see what you're saying here lir - but this has turned into a "what about the benefits2 brigade again, which is not what the debate is about. The issue here is about debt, debt management, and financial inclusion. But we've been steered away from that, & the question about "what happens to those who won't work" has been raised.

To me, that is not relevant to this thread, hence my interjection.

It is not an issue with any posters per se, it is about the debate.

I have no issue with any individual having an alternative point of view - I welcome have my own views challenged. But I feel it has to be relevant.

iB1

I don't see how it can happen - but I think we somehow need to become more "personal" when it comes to finance.

When my parents were opening their bank account and looking for a mortgage, they were put in touch with the local branch manager. Now after weeks and months, this guy knew about my parents, what their aspirations were, what their bank account looked like etc. etc. I guess it meant when lending money, there was a human element to it, as there was someone to get advice from/complain to about the process.

Nowadays, everything is via computer. My "local" branch is 120 miles away. I have 2 current accounts with two different banks, 3 savings accounts with three different banks and 2 different credit cards - yet I couldn't tell you the last time I set foot in a bank or talked to someone from any financial service.

I believe, due to this more impersonal feel, plus the fact that you don't physically see the money, or a wage packet at the end of a week/month, it becomes like monopoly money.

Also now, debt is no big deal to anyone. I came out of uni with about 8K of debt. There are 18 year olds starting uni who are already in debt and will amass more whilst going through uni. As has been previously mentioned, I don't think debt is necessarily a bad thing, but it's got to the stage where people can say "ahh yeah I've got 15K of debt. I'm skint, but I'll come out tonight and whack it on the credit card"

We've become too complacent with debt. The banks offered it and we grabbed it with both hands. However, what can we do? The internet makes things so handy to manage your own financial affairs, but if you haven't got someone looking over your shoulder whilst you're handling money, you can easily spiral out of control very quickly if you're young/naive/greedy