Looking for a Royal/Ball Python Vivarium, that is stylish and MSE

Requiem

Hi there,

I'm new to the world of herpetology but am gradually learning and thinking of getting a Royal/Ball Python as my first snake. (I am aware that some people do not recommend Royals for beginners, but others do. This is the type I have fallen in love with). It's not something I will be rushing into and will be considering it over the next few months whilst learning more, with the aim of getting one towards the end of the year if I decide it is right for me.

However, in true MSE style I am looking for some cost effective vivarium advice.

I have read that the ideal size viv for an adult royal is around 90x45x45cm, or 36x18x18 inches, and have seen the exo terra, aquapac and pennine vivs. I like the chunky square box style of the aquapac vivs, but I'd really like to either get one that is all glass or black (to match existing furniture).

At the moment my preference is leaning towards getting a young python and watching it grow, during this time I am considering keeping it in RUBs until it is big enough for the "expensive", larger viv.

The aforementioned viv brands can be rather costly, so I'm hoping someone here can advise me as to an MSE-style cost effective viv, (other than RUBs), where to buy them, or where to buy exo terra/aquapac/pennine style vivs cheaply.

Thanks

Req

~Chameleon~

It's often false economy to start in a smaller viv and move up as they grow. You're just as well getting a permanent viv from the start. All too often I've seen well-intentioned people keeping their snake(s) in a small starter viv and for whatever reason the move into the bigger one gets delayed, maybe due to finances, circumstances ... car/washing machine broke down etc ... and the snakes are becoming more & more cramped in their confined space.

As long as you ensure there's plenty of cover and hiding places for the snake to feel secure as it moves around the viv then it will be absolutely fine. Must admit a Royal wouldn't be my first choice of snake for a beginner but then I'm not a huge fan of pythons, even though I had a Burmese once!

Just make sure you do your research thoroughly. It's vital that you buy your snake from a reputable place and that they can guarantee it's a captive bred (CB) and not wild caught (WC) or farmed (WF). Also ask to see feeding & shedding records before you buy. BPs are notoriously bad feeders so make sure it is eating regularly and shedding monthly.

When choosing your viv ensure it's made of a material which can withstand high humidity as you will need to spray the substrate and increase humidity during shedding cycle. The covered particle board vivs will end up deteriorating over time and can swell making it extremely difficult to open the sliding doors....(been there, got the t-shirt )

Pennines (or there's another fibreglass viv manufacturer whose name escapes me) are ideal if a tad expensive but a great investment as they will last the lifetime of the snake.

And finally, if you haven't already done so join a reptile forum for lot's of valuable advice, although beware, as on every forum there are always a certain few you should avoid like the plague (assuming they're still around )

purplepardalis

I second the advice above on Royal Pythons
I really wouldn't recommend one as a first snake. They are seriously tricky eaters. If you can find an adult that is a proven eater of dead mice then it may be ok. One that I used to own took ages to get eating and was a real worry. I did not want to resort to feeding live. Finding CB ones is hard too. Most of them come in farmed from wild caught pregnant females. Please consider something to start with and then think about an RP later one

Requiem

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

It's often false economy to start in a smaller viv and move up as they grow. You're just as well getting a permanent viv from the start. All too often I've seen well-intentioned people keeping their snake(s) in a small starter viv and for whatever reason the move into the bigger one gets delayed, maybe due to finances, circumstances ... car/washing machine broke down etc ... and the snakes are becoming more & more cramped in their confined space.

As long as you ensure there's plenty of cover and hiding places for the snake to feel secure as it moves around the viv then it will be absolutely fine. Must admit a Royal wouldn't be my first choice of snake for a beginner but then I'm not a huge fan of pythons, even though I had a Burmese once!

Just make sure you do your research thoroughly. It's vital that you buy your snake from a reputable place and that they can guarantee it's a captive bred (CB) and not wild caught (WC) or farmed (WF). Also ask to see feeding & shedding records before you buy. BPs are notoriously bad feeders so make sure it is eating regularly and shedding monthly.

When choosing your viv ensure it's made of a material which can withstand high humidity as you will need to spray the substrate and increase humidity during shedding cycle. The covered particle board vivs will end up deteriorating over time and can swell making it extremely difficult to open the sliding doors....(been there, got the t-shirt )

Pennines (or there's another fibreglass viv manufacturer whose name escapes me) are ideal if a tad expensive but a great investment as they will last the lifetime of the snake.

And finally, if you haven't already done so join a reptile forum for lot's of valuable advice, although beware, as on every forum there are always a certain few you should avoid like the plague (assuming they're still around )

Thanks for the reply I did look at corns rather than BP's, but BP's are what I have handled before and what I fell in love with, I am certainly not shy of putting in the money, time and effort required to keep one! (Though, I don't think I could ever keep a Burmese, how big did that beast get when you had it? )

My main concern with getting a larger vivarium from the start is that (as you so rightly pointed out!) BP's can be finicky eaters, and I read that they are quite unforgiving when it comes to mistakes in husbandry and that vivariums that are too large for them can cause them stress which then triggers their finicky feeding. My initial thoughts for a viv are to have a minimum of two and possibly three hides (one warm, one cool and maybe one damp one to assist in shedding, but need more research on the logistics of this and how it will affect the humidity of the viv as a whole). As well as the 2/3 hides, I was thinking of a large branch to climb on, and several fake plants to create more seclusion. I would like to try create as natural of an environment as possible for the snake to be happy. Do you think that this amount of hides/plants will make a young BP comfortable enough in a large (90x45x45) vivarium?

I completely understand your concern regarding the "well-intentioned" who end up keeping their snakes in starter vivs for too long, but I am fortunate (and plan well enough!) for this not to be an issue for me. I will have money set aside specifically for everything the BP will need before I buy it. I may even buy the large viv at the same time as the starter RUBs, having it around for a year or two so that it will be 100% ready when the snake needs an upgrade is not a problem for me

I've ordered the Ball Python Manual as it came highly recommended, and will be reading it cover to cover before I make any decisions. These snakes can live for 25 years, so I don't know how anyone can take the decision to get one lightly! I'm also going to be visiting a few more places with reptile handling sessions over the next few months, and asking plenty of questions to make sure it's truly what I want and "right" for me.

One thing that concerns me with the aquapac and pennine style vivs is that there doesn't seem to be any latch or way to lock the sliding glass doors, I've read that BP's can be quite the escape artists, is the lack of a lock a real issue or are they easily modified?

I've joined RFUK forums and have pretty much read all the BP advice I could find there, very informative!

Requiem

purplepardalis wrote: »

I second the advice above on Royal Pythons
I really wouldn't recommend one as a first snake. They are seriously tricky eaters. If you can find an adult that is a proven eater of dead mice then it may be ok. One that I used to own took ages to get eating and was a real worry. I did not want to resort to feeding live. Finding CB ones is hard too. Most of them come in farmed from wild caught pregnant females. Please consider something to start with and then think about an RP later one

Thanks for the reply.

From what I've read, for every person who says they are finicky eaters there is another who says how their royals eat frozen-thawed perfectly. It all seems very much to be a matter of opinion. As I wrote above, I am willing to put in the time, effort and research required to care for this breed (and I've already read about the "tricks" that can be used if on the off-chance it does get finicky).

I plan on buying from a reputable CB breeder and already have a few short-listed. Getting what could be a WF or WC from any old petshop is not an option for me. I would rather pay extra to be safe and know I am getting a CB animal that has been cared for and has normal feeding and shedding habits.

frugallass

It certainly sounds like you've done all your homework

My Royal lives in an ex-fish tank (4'), the 'lid' is made out of an old, heavy shelf with holes drilled on the top with an added heavy ornament thingy to prevent escape. The heat mat covers about a quarter of the tank therefore he has a choice of temperatures. In the tank the 'cave' sits above the heat mat and the curved drainpipe piece is in the cool end, there is sphagnum moss, a big piece of bark, a bendy twig and imitation foliage as well as a dogs water dish which is replenished every couple of days or so.

When I first got him he was fed weekly and was happy to strike at the warmed up dead mice. Now he is happy for me to drop 2 dead mice in and he takes them at his leisure.

Handle your snake on a regular basis and he will quickly become used to you. Leave alone when due to shed (and after a feed) and just keep him clean and tidy from old skin and poos.

Once a year my snake goes into a kind of hibernation - he didn't take mice for approx 2 months, I just kept trying him with pup rats to whet his appetite and he eventually took the mice again. (Don't leave dead mice in for too long, if your snake doesn't eat it overnight remove it the next morning - dead mice stink to high heaven )

Good luck and enjoy :cool:

catflea

Requiem wrote: »

I've joined RFUK forums and have pretty much read all the BP advice I could find there, very informative!

Thats a risky move, full of all sorts that place! I even used to frequent it :rotfl:
For herp forums also look up reptilicious and captivebred - my ex is a mod on repti so I've never been a member but it seems pretty sensible. Captivebred is full of useful advice and knowledgeable folk but is a lot slower than RFUK

Dont know where you are in the country but Southern Aquatics were always pretty decent for kit when I was keeping Lizards of various kinds (she had a few snakeys too) http://www.southernaquatics.co.uk/ their website is pretty poor but gives you a good idea of what they charge (they do delivery too) and I seem to recall 888reptiles were pretty good too.

Oh yeah, vivs are pretty easy to build in the grand scheme of things too, so if you are handy with a hammer a quick trip to B&Q could be your answer! Keep an eye out on freecycle & charity furniture shops too - sometimes you can spot something thats just dying to be converted!



Good Luck

tealady

Hi
Have you thought about a rescue snake? If you have a look at Proteus rescue who are based in the Black Country (think Birmingham and left a bit) they currently have one available.

Requiem

catflea wrote: »

Thats a risky move, full of all sorts that place! I even used to frequent it
For herp forums also look up reptilicious and captivebred - my ex is a mod on repti so I've never been a member but it seems pretty sensible. Captivebred is full of useful advice and knowledgeable folk but is a lot slower than RFUK

Dont know where you are in the country but Southern Aquatics were always pretty decent for kit when I was keeping Lizards of various kinds (she had a few snakeys too) http://www.southernaquatics.co.uk/ their website is pretty poor but gives you a good idea of what they charge (they do delivery too) and I seem to recall 888reptiles were pretty good too.

Oh yeah, vivs are pretty easy to build in the grand scheme of things too, so if you are handy with a hammer a quick trip to B&Q could be your answer! Keep an eye out on freecycle & charity furniture shops too - sometimes you can spot something thats just dying to be converted!



Good Luck

Thanks for the extra forum links

By the time I'll be getting a snake I'll be up in Edinburgh, so it'd have to be local to Edinburgh or able to deliver.

Unfortunately Southern Aquatics do not deliver glass terrariums which is a shame because their exo terra ones are well priced. The 90x45x45 is £50 cheaper than on 888reptiles!

I'd love to build a viv to my own specs but it's a terrifying prospect. I have no DIY tools and very much doubt I would be capable of more than the basics

Thanks for your help and links

frugallass wrote: »

It certainly sounds like you've done all your homework

My Royal lives in an ex-fish tank (4'), the 'lid' is made out of an old, heavy shelf with holes drilled on the top with an added heavy ornament thingy to prevent escape. The heat mat covers about a quarter of the tank therefore he has a choice of temperatures. In the tank the 'cave' sits above the heat mat and the curved drainpipe piece is in the cool end, there is sphagnum moss, a big piece of bark, a bendy twig and imitation foliage as well as a dogs water dish which is replenished every couple of days or so.

When I first got him he was fed weekly and was happy to strike at the warmed up dead mice. Now he is happy for me to drop 2 dead mice in and he takes them at his leisure.

Handle your snake on a regular basis and he will quickly become used to you. Leave alone when due to shed (and after a feed) and just keep him clean and tidy from old skin and poos.

Once a year my snake goes into a kind of hibernation - he didn't take mice for approx 2 months, I just kept trying him with pup rats to whet his appetite and he eventually took the mice again. (Don't leave dead mice in for too long, if your snake doesn't eat it overnight remove it the next morning - dead mice stink to high heaven )

Good luck and enjoy

Thanks for the response It's certainly something I've started to learn a lot about, I've pretty much got the basics nailed but still want to read a bit more and be a bit more knowledgeable before committing myself to a slithery baby! Have you found that a heatmat alone is sufficient heating for warming the air in the tank as well as the substrate? It seems to be another one of those topics that have very mixed reviews, a lot of people seem to recommend bulbs over heatmats.

tealady wrote: »

Hi
Have you thought about a rescue snake? If you have a look at Proteus rescue who are based in the Black Country (think Birmingham and left a bit) they currently have one available.

Yep I've considered a rescue snake but haven't really found any rescues in the Edinburgh area, they tend to be rescue homes rather than rehoming rescues, if that makes sense. I also prefer to get a hatchling to help tame it from a young age, for my first snake at least. I would definitely look at getting rescue snakes (or maybe even lizards) once I have more experience, though.
________

If anyone else out there can recommend shops that sell well priced vivariums I'd appreciate the contribution to the thread

Thanks,

Req