Landlord loves Joint and several

Localtenant

Hello,


I am living in a HMO (5 households , 3 stories), with a Assured shorthold tenancy lease signed November 2003. There have been many personnel changes over the years. There are 2 original tennants from the 2003 lease , which includes me.


The landlord has been very troublesome over the past few years, and recently he wanted us to sign a new lease with dozens of new conditions, a 50% increase in the deposit, and that all deposits go through him (less some deductions), I could never see him parting with money and we cannot get a deposit protection scheme because our rent is above £25,000 per year. So we kept saying no.


The landlord gave the household 2 months notice, he had keys to all our seperately locked bedrooms we did not know about, showed our rooms, and let the place in 2 weeks without a word for a %5 or less rent increase. We have to leave 1st of May, the landlord also issued us with a small claim from the Wandsworth county court the day after the place was let.


It detailed:-


Cleaning out the basement £130
Rent arrears £540 & £570
Cleaning the Oven £85


One of the housemates had already owned up to the a rent arrear for £540 and says he will pay it next month, he pays by direct debit. The other looks like from woman "A" who has moved out already. This is the first time we had heard about rent arrear of £570.We never agreed to clean out the basement, also we rent the house in it's entirety so why should we? We had been aware that he wanted money for the basement, and the cleaning the oven for some time, he also wanted a £900 back dated rent increase we never agreed to, but this did not make it onto the claim form.


Woman "A" who moved out was not listed on the small claims service, as she had not submitted a "Tenant replacement form" (a form added as an appendix to the lease) to the landlord after being told that is what she is supposed to do. Even though the landlord has accepted her rent as a direct debit for a year now, and he's meet her as well. Two of the housemates also do direct debit, and the longest staying tennants (on the original lease) pay by cheque with a rent book. The people listed on the claim form are the current tennants less woman "A", but includes woman "B" who hasn't lived here for over a year, and the landlord knows this.


As I was saying the landlord has been very troublesome, these issues being:-

• Letting himself and unknown third parties into the house while the tennants were at work, without prior warning, he must do this regulary, unless he can pick our sick days.
• Taking 14 months to refurbish the bathrooms. Paid full rent during this time
• Taking 5 months to refurbish the kitchen. Had a agreement to pay %50 rent during the work. He went back on this and said it was for only one month, eviction notice lead to a person caving in for 2 months, eviction was retracted. The rest of the people paid the same amount.
• Illegal removal (EDF said so) of two electricity meters, which lead to two years of estimated bills which EDF could never sort out until spoken to by a lawyer (my multiple efforts just lead nowhere) Landlord response - "It's not illegal". EDF wasn't worried about the legality either, they just wanted their estimated bills paid.
• Refusing to repair a Fridge / Freezer and washing machine until we had agreed a pay increase, both items after a period were bought and taken off the rent. (these 2 events happened years apart)
• Relentless phone calls saying there has been a rent increases or a new lease with more conditions or deposit, he doesn't listen, can't take no for an answer and will just call again in a day or two, while backdating the rent increase to some random date. We have made several rent increases in the past.

Interesting tidbit-
A woman was being shown around the house as a potential new housemate,she liked the place. When she asked who the landlord was she had to say no, she had been through arbitration and then court with our landlord, because he had taken a year on refurbishments, and they had stopped paying their rent. He only rents out 5 places.


In the 2003 lease it says:-
Appendix I clause i)
"In this Lease Agreement and where necessary to the sense of interpretation, the male gender shall include the female gender and the singular shall include the plural and where two or more people are comprised in the expression "the tenant" the covenant by the tenant herein contained shall be given jointly and severally"


"Joint and several" is his favourate saying.


Am I liable for any of the above small claims? I have paid my share of the rent. Can I counter sue for any of the issues I've had to deal with?


Thanks.

DVardysShadow

Basically, you can only be joint and several with people you agreed to be joint and several with, AFAICS. So if the tenants have changed and you have not signed a new lease with the tenants for whom he is claiming that you are Joint and Several with and you have had no say in who those tenants are, I don't see how it could be imposed.

It is a difficult point, you need legal advice. Keep your powder dry here. Don't argue the point with him until he makes a claim in writing as to which tenants he is going to make a Joint and Several claim for! Otherwise you may find that he suddenly 'remembers' money owed by people you were knowingly Joint and Several with.

adg1

I agree with DVardysShadow. You need legal help on this.

I am under the impression that a new contract has to be signed to ensure that all tenants are current and that they have agreed to live with eachother and be Joint and Several.

However, I also thought that paying the rent regulalry to a landlord can be deemed a contract and hence the current set of people is right? Not sure if you all pay separately or together by 1 standing order each month?

In answer to your final question, though, yes. As Joint and Several Tenants you are responsible for each others rent were one to default. And if all the housemates ran away you'd be liable for everything.

Also, on a side note, have you offered notice to leave the property? If not, how can he let something that is let? Also, I'd guess your end of tenancy cleaning (the oven, the basement, etc) hadn't been done yet so he can't actually make you pay now for this from your deposit.

Get legal advice and explain the situation fully. Take the original contract with you. You sound like you'll need help to get your deposit back on this one.

Good luck,

Localtenant

Thanks for the advice.

DVarysS. As he has already served the small claim to me and the 4 other people, I have to reply in 14 days. He didn't say who hasn't paid, he also probably doesn't know who. In the past he's accused the wrong people who have been in arrears, and even on a arrear from another let! This guy is a accountant! (fined £8K a year ago for dodgy book keeping) So if I'm going for a counterclaim I have to note that in my claim reply.

adg1. No new contract has been signed since 2003. He does get new tenants to sign this "tenant replacement form". He sent us a notice to quit with 2 months notice. We all pay seperately... either seperate cheques or direct debits.

If the women who never got on the lease has had her rent accepted, does this mean she has a seperate unrelated basic rights & conditions contract, with no joint and several in relation to me?

Regards,

puddy

but you initially said its a HMO, thats not the same as a joint tenancy

DVardysShadow

Localtenant wrote: »

If the women who never got on the lease has had her rent accepted, does this mean she has a seperate unrelated basic rights & conditions contract, with no joint and several in relation to me?

Get a solicitor. AFAICS, you can only be held Joint and Several if you all effectively sign the same agreement. The reason is that you are taking on responsibility for other people's potential defaults under the contract - and if you do so, you have to do it knowingly. The landlord cannot impose other parties to the contract without your sayso. The only difficult point is that you could be argues to have accepted it by not moving out. On the other hand, you only need to produce your original agreement and say "Where is <new tenant's> signature on this?"

But get advice.

Jowo_2

Many landlords use a Deed of Assignment to swap out the outgoing and incoming tenant on a joint AST - it requires all parties, including the remaining tenants and the landlord, to sign it.

Sounds like your landlord's way of changing tenants on the tenancy agreement could be weak and unenforceable - you should seek advice on this ahead of defending the court case.

It is up to the landlord to prove the arrears and prove who is responsible so you should prepare your defence and paperwork well to demonstrate that you are not jointly/severally liable and owe no rent. There are good guides online or books you can buy to help defendents in small claims court cases that will help structure your defence.

adg1

jenner wrote: »

but you initially said its a HMO, thats not the same as a joint tenancy

Yes it is. It doesn't matter whether the contract is 'joint and several' or there are separate tenancy agreements for each room. Its just the number of unrelated occupants over a certain number of floors.

Fire_Fox

Localtenant wrote: »

Thanks for the advice.

DVarysS. As he has already served the small claim to me and the 4 other people, I have to reply in 14 days. He didn't say who hasn't paid, he also probably doesn't know who. In the past he's accused the wrong people who have been in arrears, and even on a arrear from another let! This guy is a accountant! (fined £8K a year ago for dodgy book keeping) So if I'm going for a counterclaim I have to note that in my claim reply.

adg1. No new contract has been signed since 2003. He does get new tenants to sign this "tenant replacement form". He sent us a notice to quit with 2 months notice. We all pay seperately... either seperate cheques or direct debits.

If the women who never got on the lease has had her rent accepted, does this mean she has a seperate unrelated basic rights & conditions contract, with no joint and several in relation to me?

Regards,

My advice is pick your battles, this is potentially a very straightforward case don't muddy the waters with mudslinging. All the stuff about kitchens/ bathrooms/ electricity meters is ancient history, you should have dealt with that in writing by recorded delivery at the time. Be very careful what accusations you make against the landlord's professional conduct, think slander/ libel.

The others are spot on with saying you need legal advice as to whether this is a joint tenancy or an HMO - this is your route out of paying the arrears. I also think the landlord letting himself into the property and the phone calls about a rent increase are harassment, I would absolutely use that in your counter claim. Those events occurred immediately prior to you vacating the property are intimately connected with the events after you vacated the property.

I think you will find this thread interesting, especially the stuff about the Protection from Eviction Act:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2342249
AFAIK if the house has been let as an HMO (individually renting your own bedsit) the landlord has the right enter the communal areas without notifying the tenants. If the house has been let under a joint tenancy then the landlord cannot enter any part of the property without giving you written notice. Basically he cannot have it both ways - he cannot chase you for arrears and it be legal for him to have shown new tenants around!!

tbs624

jenner wrote: »

but you initially said its a HMO, thats not the same as a joint tenancy

Fire_Fox wrote: »

The others are spot on with saying you need legal advice as to whether this is a joint tenancy or an HMO - this is your route out of paying the arrears.

An HMO can be let on one agreement with J&SL - the two things are not mutually exclusive. Having the one contract does not mean that the Ts become one "household", negating HMO definitions.

Jowo wrote: »

Many landlords use a Deed of Assignment to swap out the outgoing and incoming tenant on a joint AST ...

This one is not an AST - rent exceeds £25K, according to OP.

Local tenant - what are the court papers that the LL has given you - is it merely a copy of a Claim Form which he intends to file?

Instead of posting on here, my suggestion would be that you make an urgent appointment to see the Private Sector Rentals Officer (may be called Landlord Liaison Officer/Tenancy Relations Officer etc) at the local Council and take a copy of all paperwork with you. You may also want to try Community Legal Advice

Fire_Fox

tbs624 wrote: »

An HMO can be let on one agreement with J&SL - the two things are not mutually exclusive. Having the one contract does not mean that the Ts become one "household", negating HMO definitions.

Thanks, yes I was aware of that. Qualified HMO later on with "individually renting your own bedsit" but grammatically/ structurally my post could do with editing!