'Who do you support in the BA strike?' poll discussion

MrSmartprice

CelticFire wrote: »

It is clear that this strike is manufactured and sustained by Walsh in an attempt to break the union. It is an unfortunate facet of british psychology but I cannot remember the British public ever backing a strike.

I am not surprised if Walsh is engineering the strike. I do think both sides are contemptible and it will probably destroy BA.

I recall when I was in Coventry in the 70s and had many friends in the car industry. Management used to engineer strikes then too. If there was a shortage of parts they would speed up the track, causing an instant strike. Meetings would go on until the parts turned up, the track was put back to normal and they carried on. It saved them paying the men lay-off pay.

So how dumb were the union men? It was widely thought that the union officials were complicit in much of this. They co-operated with management on some issues under the table in exchange for a blind eye being turned on some factory activities. Some workers never did a day's work and were covered by others while they ran businesses, easy as they were over-manned. People sold shoes, clothes, electrical stuff, meat, (mostly dodgy, of course), and ran bookmaking and moneylending businesses quite openly in the factories.

I never worked in a car factory but my work took me into them where you could see all this. And it's amazing that you could get your hands on anything via a mate in a factory. Times may have changed but it seems tactics haven't.;

MrShed

CelticFire wrote: »

It is clear that this strike is manufactured and sustained by Walsh in an attempt to break the union. It is an unfortunate facet of british psychology but I cannot remember the British public ever backing a strike. The majority react on a personal basis to their own inconvenience rather than applying any analysis of the situation. It is an unfortunate, selfish attitude.

Needless to say, I couldnt disagree more.

I couldnt care less, I never ever fly. I think it is an unfortunate, selfish attitude of the strikers to maintain such a position during a recession - I think jessicar above said it best to be honest, they do not have public opinion because the same is happening to BA that has happened across vast swathes of companies over the last couple of years, and it is the harsh reality of a recession and a competitive marketplace.

To suggest that everyone should just be glad to have a job and just accept whatever any management decides, displays a subservience that makes me cringe.

I dont think anyone is saying to accept whatever any management decides. What I personally am saying is that if you dont accept it, move on - dont strike.

Moreover, as an employEE, there clearly IS an element of subservience, that, if you dont like, be self employed.

flossy_splodge

I am disappointed to read so much aggression on this thread.
We are all entitled to a personal point of view and is after all highly unlikely that there ever will be a single point of view with which everyone can agree.
For my money the biggest problem is British Management.
We don't manage, we fire fight.
I did my MBA some years ago and the attitude of both lecturers and other participants was quite shocking.
I think it's our inate class consciousness coming out.
When someone does a good job in this country, often they get promoted into 'management'.
It totally disregards the fact that if you can organise the smooth production of widgits on the shop floor that absolutely does NOT mean you can 'manage' at a higher level.
Little training is offered that is relevant and I honestly believe that in consequence we have a massive raft of so called 'managers' that are in fact *!*! lickers who will do anything their seniors ask of them as they know thay are basically not competent to manage so need to protect their own position in other ways.
I too think Walsh is a bully. I think the interview I saw of him just a couple of days ago showed quite clearly his first objective is NOT to resolve the strike but to BREAK the strike.
Good management? I don't think so.
Shame we don't teach 'negotiation' as part of the school curriculum so upcoming generations will know it is not an "I am right and you are wrong" position but one of compromise and the need to be seen to be trustworthy.
I despair of British management EVER getting better.:eek:

PhiltheBear

jamesevans25 wrote: »

They do now, which obviously has no bearing on the fact that they are striking. The argument is they will not if the plans go through. Please can you substanciate better than "way more, about 50% more than Virgin" or else I cant really take you seriously. From figures that I have seen on the BBC they actually earn less than Virgin, and as neither of us have access to the real figure then how can you claim I am wrong and you are right. You really do show very poor intelligence.

The figures for cabin crew wages were published in the Sunday Times when the first lot of strikes was threatened. Quite clearly, BA staff were paid more than Virgin (by about 50%), way more than Ryanair (no surprise there) and more than the major European airlines. ALL of the staff doing the same job at those airlines have to undergo the same training as BA staff.

BA staff are - as I've said before - simply overpaid waitresses. If you look at all the wordage that was posted about what they do - it boils down to - perform First Aid (not medical intervention, which requires special training), be able to see what's on fire and put it out if possible, know how to find and operate the emergency exit and deal with passengers.

That simply doesn't make them all that special.

Judy_W

Dear Astro 1

So your basic pay is £13000 is it? Don't you think you should think yourself lucky to have a job at all right now? I'm a Teaching Assistant and I don't take home anywhere near that amount and I work damned hard for what I do get! AND I've already been told that I'm not getting a pay rise at all this year because of the economic climate. My husband has to work 12 hour night shifts for up to 12 days at a time for us to bring home a decent salary between us. Get back to work!:mad:

Jo_F

What's a payrise Judy? I have just taken a pay cut to help the company I work for keep going.

Astro 1, I'll see your take home and reduce it by £1k a month, that;s what I am living on at the moment!

Caveleiro

williham wrote: »

Striking is like when kids have a tantrum to get their own way.

So BA staff have to give in to bullyboy Willie Walsh do they? If it wasn't for unions and the right to strike and we would still be serfs.

Caveleiro

flossy_splodge wrote: »

I am disappointed to read so much aggression on this thread.
We are all entitled to a personal point of view and is after all highly unlikely that there ever will be a single point of view with which everyone can agree.
For my money the biggest problem is British Management.
We don't manage, we fire fight.
I did my MBA some years ago and the attitude of both lecturers and other participants was quite shocking.
I think it's our inate class consciousness coming out.
When someone does a good job in this country, often they get promoted into 'management'.
It totally disregards the fact that if you can organise the smooth production of widgits on the shop floor that absolutely does NOT mean you can 'manage' at a higher level.
Little training is offered that is relevant and I honestly believe that in consequence we have a massive raft of so called 'managers' that are in fact *!*! lickers who will do anything their seniors ask of them as they know thay are basically not competent to manage so need to protect their own position in other ways.
I too think Walsh is a bully. I think the interview I saw of him just a couple of days ago showed quite clearly his first objective is NOT to resolve the strike but to BREAK the strike.
Good management? I don't think so.
Shame we don't teach 'negotiation' as part of the school curriculum so upcoming generations will know it is not an "I am right and you are wrong" position but one of compromise and the need to be seen to be trustworthy.
I despair of British management EVER getting better.:eek:

Here, here!

MrShed

Caveleiro wrote: »

So BA staff have to give in to bullyboy Willie Walsh do they? If it wasn't for unions and the right to strike and we would still be serfs.

I wasnt aware unions existed in the 12th century.

gizza

no_fat_chicks wrote: »

The union apparently think they know more about how to run an international airline business than the executives of the airline business do. Which begs the question, why don't they just start up their own?

The union is there to try and save jobs,which is their number one priority.If you allow the so called executives to have their way,not just here but any other company,these money fat cats would have everyone on minimum wage working longer hours,as long as it doesnt affect their salary or bonuses.The cabinn crew have offered to cut their wages to save jobs but the laws above wont accept it.Look at it this way,what would you do if it was your livelyhood and you were about to lose your job,lie down and take it ,or come up with something to save jobs.If you choose to lie down you obviously dont belong to a union.They are there to protect workers of any industry against the know all powers who only look after themselves in a time of crisis.Back these people up ,they are fighting for their jobs for gods sake