'Who do you support in the BA strike?' poll discussion

MiserlyMartin

BA management leave a lot to be desired. They have caused a lot of problems they run a terrible airline, poor service, delays, etc. Their attitude to employees in the past have been shocking. If I was working for BA I would strike too. Up the workers! LOL

MiserlyMartin

maytaurus wrote: »

Gordon Brown says about the strike
"It's the wrong time, it's unjustified, it's deplorable,"
Just wondered if you see Gordon Brown as an anti union commentator?

I laughed when I heard him say that. The wrong time for him he means - near the election, all this unrest! And now he has to upset his union bankrolling Labour supporter friends!

Well Gordon, I think you are unjustfied to bottle it at the last time you were going to hold an election, so subjecting the UK to more months of your unelected disasterous rule! And I think just about everything you have done in the last 13 years is deplorable. How funny for him to say that.

Fluffi

gizza wrote: »

The union is there to try and save jobs,which is their number one priority. ...

Not all jobs should be saved ... if management can cut jobs through increasing efficiency by automation or improved working practices then they should cut staff to save the business money Only a small fraction of the workforce are affected anyway ... generally they management will get rid of the lazier, less performing staff first so if you work hard and are good at your job then there is nothing to worry about anyway.

I totally support BA management in this strike ... I hope that if Walsh wins this strike he then takes on the London Underground unions. I'm fed up with the way the current management panda to the unions unreasonable demands every time they threaten a strike.

inicholson

flossy_splodge wrote: »

I am disappointed to read so much aggression on this thread.
We are all entitled to a personal point of view and is after all highly unlikely that there ever will be a single point of view with which everyone can agree.
For my money the biggest problem is British Management.
We don't manage, we fire fight.
I did my MBA some years ago and the attitude of both lecturers and other participants was quite shocking.
I think it's our inate class consciousness coming out.
When someone does a good job in this country, often they get promoted into 'management'.
It totally disregards the fact that if you can organise the smooth production of widgits on the shop floor that absolutely does NOT mean you can 'manage' at a higher level.
Little training is offered that is relevant and I honestly believe that in consequence we have a massive raft of so called 'managers' that are in fact *!*! lickers who will do anything their seniors ask of them as they know thay are basically not competent to manage so need to protect their own position in other ways.
I too think Walsh is a bully. I think the interview I saw of him just a couple of days ago showed quite clearly his first objective is NOT to resolve the strike but to BREAK the strike.
Good management? I don't think so.
Shame we don't teach 'negotiation' as part of the school curriculum so upcoming generations will know it is not an "I am right and you are wrong" position but one of compromise and the need to be seen to be trustworthy.
I despair of British management EVER getting better.:eek:

Have to agree. It's the problem of promotion to a level of incompetence; if you're good at a job you get promoted and if you're good at that you get promoted again. Until you find a job you're useless at (usually managing people doing the last job you were good at) and spend the rest of your working life there!

BA have engineered this strike because they want to get rid of their more experienced (and more expensive) staff. New staff are employed on a new contract that makes them much cheaper. Withdrawing travel perks from striking staff is making sure that the workforce are further divided and a clear message to striking staff that BA are not interested in a negotiated settlement. Or any kind of settlement.

Roger_Moore_007

Fluffi wrote: »

Not all jobs should be saved ... if management can cut jobs through increasing efficiency by automation or improved working practices then they should cut staff to save the business money Only a small fraction of the workforce are affected anyway ... generally they management will get rid of the lazier, less performing staff first so if you work hard and are good at your job then there is nothing to worry about anyway.

I totally support BA management in this strike ... I hope that if Walsh wins this strike he then takes on the London Underground unions. I'm fed up with the way the current management panda to the unions unreasonable demands every time they threaten a strike.

How naive can you be? If we were living in the fifties your suggestion that if you work hard then you've nothing to worry about might ring true. Unfortunately modern day businesses do not reward people for working hard, the only way to get promoted from within is to stick your tongue up the management's !!!!.

Why is it that all of these lunatic right-wingers come out of the woodwork whenever there is a strike, complaining that the strikers should consider themselves lucky to be in a job? It's so terrible that people should want to protect their jobs afterall!

tdeacon81

I don’t know what to believe about wages of cabin crew at BA compared to other airlines, all I know is that I work for another airline (short haul) as an engineer on considerably less than CSD’s, and that in the past few years I’ve never seen an advert on BA careers website for engineers, cabin crew or anything interesting.

Simple fact of the matter is people don’t want to leave BA. Why is that? The flight attendants I work with would give their right arm to work for BA.

I’m not going to go down the same vein that some one mentioned about cabin crew to be glorified waitresses because I don’t believe it to be true, but you surely cant justify even close to £50k for cabin service directors. That’s more than the first officers and engineers who have much more responsibility for flight safety.

BA cabin crew get back to work, Unite are ruining your reputation.

relaxtwotribes

Roger_Moore_007 wrote: »

If we were living in the fifties your suggestion that if you work hard then you've nothing to worry about might ring true.

Unfortunately that was one of the things that was wrong with the fifties. When will people wake up and realise that shareholders pay management to produce profits and if management don't achieve that then the shareholders will replace the management. If producing profits means cutting jobs, then that's what management will do.

In BA's case the shareholders are right behind Walsh urging him on.

Gilliancares

laaljay wrote: »

We were due to fly to Vancouver on Saturday. Yesterday BA announced its schedule for the weekend strike action dates. Both our flights were going ahead. This morning when I checked the website I discovered our flight to Vancouver was cancelled. As a family we are devastated! My children have both cried their eyes out. This was a holiday of a lifetime to celebrate my husband's 40th birthday and we had been looking forward to it for years. BA have transferred us onto a flight to Calgary which is hundreds of miles from where we need to be. We are having to pay £1000 for a hotel and connecting flights and also will lose a day of our holiday. Our insurance company say they can do nothing about it. We feel we have no option, pay £1000 or lose thousands more. I had no sympathy for the cabin crew over this strike but now have no sympathy for BA either if this is the way it treats its customers. We, like many thousands of others, will never fly with BA again. I'm afraid I think this will be the end for BA. So what will Unite have achieved - no jobs for their members and probably thousands of others!

laaljay - I'm shocked by your treatment! Is it too late for you to travel to Calgary? it is an easy and really stunning drive to Vancouver - 10hrs - ( B&B for one night suggest) sounds long but the roads are great and traffic minimal, snow in the valleys has been light this year. So drive ought to be ok. Petrol is cheap. A flight is 1hr which BA ought to pay for! But it is a shame for you to lose the trip. Hope you can get there! Driving with overnight stop ( Locals drive straight through!) ought to be cheaper than flight. All the best

Gilliancares

tdeacon81 wrote: »

I don’t know what to believe about wages of cabin crew at BA compared to other airlines, all I know is that I work for another airline (short haul) as an engineer on considerably less than CSD’s, and that in the past few years I’ve never seen an advert on BA careers website for engineers, cabin crew or anything interesting.

Simple fact of the matter is people don’t want to leave BA. Why is that? The flight attendants I work with would give their right arm to work for BA.

I’m not going to go down the same vein that some one mentioned about cabin crew to be glorified waitresses because I don’t believe it to be true, but you surely cant justify even close to £50k for cabin service directors. That’s more than the first officers and engineers who have much more responsibility for flight safety.

BA cabin crew get back to work, Unite are ruining your reputation.

My Dad was an airline Engineer - and I know how much studying he had to do, I always thought they were underpaid for their responsibility actually. They ought to be on nearer pilot pay in my mind

Anyway I just want to say that my sister works as Longhaul crew for BA and refuses to read any of the comments online - can't blame her. But I do know that there are Longhaul CSD's who are in the 55-65 age group. Before the pension nightmare they retired at 55 - compulsory retirement. But their pension dues were high to cover that. They also get yearly increments to pay. So there are a SMALL pocket of people on the pay quoted for CSD. BA are not quoting average salaries, they want to make the crew sound greedy. IT is PROPAGANDA by BA.... don't wind yourselves up. 80% of crew are not supervisory they are on around £20,000 Longhaul. But start on £14,000.
CSD is a management role, it's a very tough interview to get it. My sister has tried and failed. They have over 300 passengers on the 747, 14 crew. The incidents on a longhaul flight that my sister often has to deal with astound me. She is an ex nurse. She says they have no complaints on current pay -people seem to think they do! But Operation Columbus is going ahead... ask Willie about that.

Gilliancares

PhiltheBear wrote: »

The figures for cabin crew wages were published in the Sunday Times when the first lot of strikes was threatened. Quite clearly, BA staff were paid more than Virgin (by about 50%), way more than Ryanair (no surprise there) and more than the major European airlines. ALL of the staff doing the same job at those airlines have to undergo the same training as BA staff.

BA staff are - as I've said before - simply overpaid waitresses. If you look at all the wordage that was posted about what they do - it boils down to - perform First Aid (not medical intervention, which requires special training), be able to see what's on fire and put it out if possible, know how to find and operate the emergency exit and deal with passengers.

That simply doesn't make them all that special.

The wages quoted for BA had allowances already added - they then added them AGAIN as extras - ie added allowances twice. Also if you care to know which most people seem not to ! They just want to rant......- The basic was increased in BA so that crew could work up to 12hrs 30 minutes ( most days) without any extra overtime claim. The long range give some extra OT. Virgin crew get all OTime on top - YOU really have to KNOW ALL THE FACTS and granted - it is complicated!

As for foreign airlines - other European airlines earn more - even Iberia! They earn £35,000 but who knows how hard they work. Or what their starting pay is etc BA do a much bigger service than Ryan air etc at the moment....