OS cleaning chemicals: How green are they?

SusanCarter

It seems that the four OS cleaning chemicals to use are vinegar, stardrops, soda crystals and bicarbnate of soda.

Obviously, the fact that you use less with some of these reduces the environmental impact but does anyone have any idea how their environmental impact compares to other cleaning things?

It would be easy to assume that vinegar is "good" because it is "natural" but it is acetic acid (new name ethanoic acid) and not everything that is natural is necessarily "good" (e.g. poisonous plants).

Just wondering if anyone has any ideas on the subject?

Volcano

Vinegar is not JUST Acetic acid. Vinegar contains approx 5% acetic acid to 95% water and degrades to harmless compounds. Acetic acid is produced by bacteria and occurs naturally in over ripe fruit and veg as well as the human body.

Soda crystals (aka washing soda or sodium carbonate) is mildly toxic and can be very irritating to skin. Again this is normally used in a diluted solution so reducing its concentration, though you should always follow the precautions for use on the container. Dispose of with plenty of water down the sink or toilet and it has no harmful by-products.

Bicarbonate of soda (baking powder or sodium hydrogen carbonate) can be irritating to humans in its dry form, though again most of its uses involve dissolving it in water. Sodium hydrogen carbonate naturally occurs in mineral water and as such is about as environmentally friendly as it gets.

Stardrops- the main ingredient is sodium dodecylbenzene sulfonate (a standard ingredient in many detergents) and seems to be similar to soda crystals in its effects on humans. It is used however (in I assume higher concentrations) as a pesticide so can be toxic to aquatic species such as fish etc. Another active ingredient is alkyl ether sulphate, a skin irritant though not quite so bad for the environment.

Basically, the first 3 above are pretty harmless as household chemicals go as long as you dispose of with plenty of water. Stardrops isn't particularly good, but it's probably no worse than other standard household cleaners.

larmy16

I was reading a book recently (well glancing at it) and I think it was called Ethical Shopping - but I did notice that Stardrops was highly recommended as an ethical product. I seem to remember Flash was not. There were three categories, Flash was at the bottom, and Stardrops at the top.

Will see if I can have another look as I know someone who has that book.

SusanCarter

Volcano wrote:

Vinegar is not JUST Acetic acid. Vinegar contains approx 5% acetic acid to 95% water and degrades to harmless compounds. Acetic acid is produced by bacteria and occurs naturally in over ripe fruit and veg as well as the human body.

I do apologise if I gave the impression that I thought vinegar was *just* acetic acid however this was not what I meant. Although technically it is 95% water, I would still consider it to be acetic acid albeit dilute acetic acid. It probably comes from working in labs where you would still call an acid "xxx acid" regardless of the concentration. Incidentally, I don't think I have ever actually came across stronger than 95% acetic acid.

I think maybe I wasn't really as clear as I might have been in my OP so here are some questions for discussion:

1) What is the impact of each cleaner on the environment once it has been used in the usual way?
2) What impact do the production processes of each cleaner have on the environment?
3) How do these compare with the average household cleaners?

Volcano

Acid concentration is critical when we are talking about environmental issues. 5% acetic acid cleans limescale off taps and tastes nice on chips, it is pretty harmless around the home and flushes away without any problems.

95% acetic acid is flammable, reactive, causes severe burns, irritates mucous membranes and needs careful disposal with copious amounts of water.

It is perfectly correct to call vinegar dilute acetic acid though. I was a bit concerned that people might look up "acetic acid" and :eek: when they saw the dangers associated with it!

not completely relevant but just fyi

Incidentally, I don't think I have ever actually came across stronger than 95% acetic acid.

Glacial acetic acid is effectively water free @ 99.7%+ purity.

1) Basically, the first 3 mentioned before are pretty safe as their degradation products (when they break up in water) occur naturally to a greater extent in water. I did find a study on degradation of the active ingredient in Stardrops and it degrades quicker than standard washing powders (that also contain the same active ingredient, though at @20%) and there seems to be a lot of research into removing this stuff from water.

2) OK this really is a difficult one! The first 3 are all used in industry so I'm guessing that domestic use is minimal. Acetic acid is partly derived from oil, though some comes from recycling and biological sources. The others can be mined from the ground. Almost sure that Stardrops main ingredient will have to come from oil too.

3) Many household cleaners tend to keep their ingredients secret (so well done Stardrops on revealing yours!). Other cleaners do have a host of stuff to 'sell' the product (fragrances, optical brighteners, thickeners etc) but again what these are exactly is kept secret.


I totally agree that 'natural' does not always equal 'good', though in this case the 3 basic ones are quite good and you should use these with a 'clean' conscience :rolleyes:


The whole 'environmental impact' question is a difficult one. Stardrops seems not to contain phosphates (which washing powders do) which do have a dramatic short term environmental effect, though its main ingredient is used as a pesticide. I'm guessing that if this accumulates then it can cause problems (hence the research into degrading this stuff in water).

A lot of these chemicals have only been around for a relatively short time and research into their environmental effects is lacking (not as profitable as making the stuff I'm sure).

IMHO if people use more of the cleaners and less of the 'unknowns', then at least they can be sure they are making some difference.

SusanCarter

Volcano wrote:

Acid concentration is critical when we are talking about environmental issues. 5% acetic acid cleans limescale off taps and tastes nice on chips, it is pretty harmless around the home and flushes away without any problems.

95% acetic acid is flammable, reactive, causes severe burns, irritates mucous membranes and needs careful disposal with copious amounts of water.

It is perfectly correct to call vinegar dilute acetic acid though. I was a bit concerned that people might look up "acetic acid" and :eek: when they saw the dangers associated with it!

:eek: Hadn't thought of that. I used to entertain myself by reading about how dangerous the chemicals were when I worked in a lab (I had about 10 hours work to do in a 37.5 hour working week). Some of them are so exagerated that I would never have thought of people taking them seriously.

My favourite was water: If it gets on your skin, wash off with water. :rotfl:

Maz

Hi everyone,

Was in my local Morrisons the other day when I spotted the acclaimed Stardops! Before I use this stuff, can anyone tell me if it's environmentally friendly?

savvy

Hi Maz, I've merged your thread here as it has lots of info that may help you out
HTH
savvy

shokadelika

Maz wrote:

Hi everyone,

Was in my local Morrisons the other day when I spotted the acclaimed Stardops! Before I use this stuff, can anyone tell me if it's environmentally friendly?

No its not!
I thought it was can't beat Ecover I guess.

jellycat40

Maybe stardrops is not very eco friendly in its concentrated form but you dilute it hugely to use it. I even dilute it further than suggested. One 500ml bottle lasts for months and months. It is used by the drop as opposed to many other products and the trigger spray!!!!

I will carry on using stardrops and the other stuff for economic and environmental reasons.

Louise

jellycat40

Posting again to get this thread going as I am not sure it got a very good go.

Louise