Do I need to sign a new tenancy agreement?

shadow1980

Oh yeah, and someone asked if the place I was living in was a HMO regarding the council tax, and yes it is. It's a house divided into 8 separate bedsits.

G_M

The critical dates are
1) when was the S21 issued?
2) when was the deposit protected?

The dates of subsequent tenancy agreements is irrelevant to the issue of the validity of the S21 Notice.

shadow1980

The s21 was issued 14th October 2009 and my deposit was protected on the 4th October 2009 the day my new six month contract started.

tbs624

If you were to continue at the property under a statutory periodic agreement, running on from month to month after expiry of your fixed term AST, then the original contract terms still apply, except for those relating to "determination" (ie, when the tenancy should end). therefore if your rent included certain bills it should continue to do so. The LL is liable for the Council Tax of an HMO and obviously allows an amount within the rents to reimburse this outgoing. They can serve notice of a rent increase to take effect during the stat periodic, but they can't just suddenly decide that the rent is exclusive of the Council Tax. When was your last rent increase, if any?


On the S21 Notice, if on the one day they have had you sign the new Fixed Term contract, they have scheme registered the deposit and then served you the S21 then the LA would have to be able to show that the S21 most definitely was served *after* the time that they scheme- registered the deposit.

Edit - seeing your post immediately above it would appear that the S21 was validly served.

Jowo wrote: »

As I indicated before, its not the date of issue of the notice to quit that is the main thing, but getting it to time to expire with the rental period.

A S21 Notice is not a Notice to Quit: NTQs apply to non-AST agreements. An S21 is a Notice that the LL requires possession of the property.

shadow1980

It's a shame this has to be so complicated... or at least it is to me. I haven't had any rent increases since I moved in 18 months ago... the rent is still £700 p/m bills included, but now they want us all to start paying council tax as the property recently came up for a council tax band review, and it seems that the LL was only paying council tax on the property as a single dwelling rather than 8 separate studios. Now of course, they have to pay for each studio in the building.

As for the s21, I am under the impression that it's there if the LL wants possession of the property, and it's their decision if they want to act on it or not? The LA wants me to sign a new 6 month contract, so I believe if they have to, they would go ahead and get a possession order. I believe that because the council tax will be in effect from April 1st is the reason why they won't allow me to go on a periodic tenancy because wouldn't that make it harder to get the full amount of Council tax from me? I mean because they're only allowed to raise the rent a certain amount in a year?

goRt

shadow1980 wrote: »

As for the s21, I am under the impression that it's there if the LL wants possession of the property, and it's their decision if they want to act on it or not? The LA wants me to sign a new 6 month contract, so I believe if they have to, they would go ahead and get a possession order. I believe that because the council tax will be in effect from April 1st is the reason why they won't allow me to go on a periodic tenancy because wouldn't that make it harder to get the full amount of Council tax from me? I mean because they're only allowed to raise the rent a certain amount in a year?

Ignore the LA, go direct to the LL and ask to stay the extra months on a periodic but paying the increase - it's the logical way to proceed

To answer someone's earlier question - yes, if the LL takes you to court and you come second, then you will be liable for all legitimate costs.

Fire_Fox

I'd be inclined to stall the agents for a couple of months, long enough to move. Don't say whether you intend to go or stay, wait for the new contract to arrive and don't sign it but continue to pay rent. That will give you a couple of weeks before they start chasing - at which point write to the letting agency and ask for an address at which to serve notices. You are legally entitled to this but ONLY if you ask in writing. That will waste another week or two.

Once you have that you can query with the landlord the idea to add the council tax to your rent which is illegal. Again communicate in writing so you have a record of events, and you waste another week or two. If the letting agents start chasing for the contract to be signed, just explain that you are sorting out the council tax issue with the landlord, don't say you are not going to stay. I bet you could waste the best part of two months with letters going backwards and forwards.

Once you are ready to go you will need to serve one months notice in writing, coinciding with a rental period. No doubt at this point the agency and landlord will want you to go, but they'd be crazy to try to enforce the S21 through the courts, which takes about the same amount of time anyway.

CIS

Oh yeah, and someone asked if the place I was living in was a HMO regarding the council tax, and yes it is. It's a house divided into 8 separate bedsits.

but now they want us all to start paying council tax as the property recently came up for a council tax band review

I would check the council tax listings at https://www.voa.gov.uk as something doesn't quite appear right here.

A property (assuming the property wasn't orginally rebanded ) can only be re-banded if it has been sold/transferred, there's been a national re-banding or there has been a split/merger. Using multiple bedrooms in a property wouldn't ordinarily be classed as a split unless they were now all independet flats and banded seperately.

If the properties are banded seperately then they aren't HMO's and the tenant's would be responsible for their own properties.

lizzielondon

Ulfar wrote: »

Is the deposit protected and have you had the prescribed information.

If it hasn't and you haven't had the information then the original s21 is invalid.

Nobody else has mentioned it so I thought I would bring it up as it may solve your problems, the landlord would have to lodge the deposit with a dps scheme and then issue a new s21.

even if the deposit was lodged, the s21 is not valid if it was served before the deposit was lodged- quite probable if it came with the original tenancy agreement as it's likely you gave the LA the deposit when you signed? therefore they had not protected it before you were served

G_M

lizzielondon wrote: »

even if the deposit was lodged, the s21 is not valid if it was served before the deposit was lodged- quite probable if it came with the original tenancy agreement as it's likely you gave the LA the deposit when you signed? therefore they had not protected it before you were served

Read the thread! This has been stated before (along with links to the relevant statute), AND has been answered by the OP!