Do I need to sign a new tenancy agreement?

shadow1980

I've just found the S21 (1)(b) I thought I didn't have one when I signed the tenancy, but I guess I did. The expiry date is April 3rd, and in the notes, it says "The length of the notice must be at least two months and the notice may be given before or on the day, when the fixed term comes to an end" I'm guessing as Jowo says, I get two months anyway? I can't believe I didn't notice the S21 before.
As for the council tax, I don't mind having to pay that for the two months that I need before I move out. I only have an email from the LA saying that I would need to pay the council tax when I sign a new contract.

goRt

shadow1980 wrote: »

I've just found the S21 (1)(b) I thought I didn't have one when I signed the tenancy, but I guess I did. The expiry date is April 3rd, and in the notes, it says "The length of the notice must be at least two months and the notice may be given before or on the day, when the fixed term comes to an end" I'm guessing as Jowo says, I get two months anyway? I can't believe I didn't notice the S21 before.
As for the council tax, I don't mind having to pay that for the two months that I need before I move out. I only have an email from the LA saying that I would need to pay the council tax when I sign a new contract.

You've had the S21 for the full term of the AST, you should vacate on the last day of the AST or the LL can start proceedings - these will take approx 6 weeks for a court date and 2 weeks for the possession order
So you'll be able to stay, but what sort of reference will you get and you'll also be liable for all legitimate costs to have you removed.

jowo's comment was before you 'found' the S21 - you've had your 2 payment periods notice

Offer to pay the rent increase (council tax), but staying for the 2 months you require.

Jowo_2

You've had your two months notice served upfront, therefore the landlord can seek a possession order through the courts the day after your current contract expires.

Therefore the time you get will depend on how busy the courts are, and if the judgement is made in your landlords favour, how long the judge gives you to leave the property, plus whether you want to ignore it and force the landlord to get court appointed bailiffs to enforce it (again, the additional time this requires will depend on local waiting times for their services).

Keep good records from now on - put everything in writing, keep a copy, send things recorded delivery/proof of delivery.

If the property is in england/wales, was your deposit protected in a tenancy deposit scheme?

Ulfar

Is the deposit protected and have you had the prescribed information.

If it hasn't and you haven't had the information then the original s21 is invalid.

Nobody else has mentioned it so I thought I would bring it up as it may solve your problems, the landlord would have to lodge the deposit with a dps scheme and then issue a new s21.

shadow1980

Ok... so the only thing I can do is talk to the LA and beg them to let me stay for an extra two months without signing a new contract... either that, or have to worry about paying the LA legal fees if it all gets messy. I was hoping that I could go an see them and refuse to sign a new contract... I suppose I could still do that.
Thanks Ulfar, but my deposit has been protected with DPS, however it took them almost a year to do it. I guess the LA has done quite a job with covering their backs for everything.

I really appreciate all the help you've given me. It's been extremely useful.

Jowo_2

To be clear here, your contract is with the Landlord -the letting agents are intermediaries. Send that letter now demanding your right to the landlords address or do the detective work suggested in the landlordzone link to find him.

I think a tenant has to pay the court fee which is fairly low if judgement is made in their favour. I am not aware if the defendent has to pay the other sides legal costs - perhaps someone can clarify how much extra the OP could end up paying?

You don't need to see them to refuse to sign a new contract, just don't sign any that you get sent!

ceh209

Ah but was the S21 you've got issued before the deposit was protected? The date it was protected will be on the certificate I believe. From my understanding then the S21 would still be invalid and the LL needs a new one... can someone confirm?

Jowo_2

ceh209 wrote: »

Ah but was the S21 you've got issued before the deposit was protected? The date it was protected will be on the certificate I believe. From my understanding then the S21 would still be invalid and the LL needs a new one... can someone confirm?

According to this link, the S21 may well be invalid if served before the deposit was required to be protected.

http://www.sandersonssolicitors.co.uk/News%202009/2009-09%20landlords%20be%20a%20ware.htm

G_M

The S21 is invalid if it was served before the deposit was protected.

The Housing Act 2004 at Section 215 states:
"The landlord may not serve a notice under Section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 at any time where a deposit is not being safeguarded in accordance with an authorised scheme or where either the initial requirements of the scheme have not been met or the prescribed information regarding the safeguarding the deposit has not been given"

"Note if the tenants deposit was applicable for protection and you failed to protect it, under law any section 21 notice served will be deemed invalid. In such cases the remedy is to protect the deposit and re-serve the notice"

Many agencies issue a S21 as a matter of course at the same time as the tenancy agreement is signed. This of course, invalidates it as the deposit is inevitably not protected at this time!

You are also entitled to the LL's name/address:

"under the provisions of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985, tenants of dwellings in England & Wales, who make a written request to an agent, have a right to the landlord's name and address. This information must be supplied within 21 days. The legislation refers only to the landlord's name and address, not his telephone number or any other form of contact details."

My advice would be to sit tight (and not serve two months notice) but to simply ask in writing for the LLs name and address. The day after your fixed term expires, you become a periodic tenant. You are then obliged to give one month's notice ending on a rental period so time you one months notice accordingly. The LL has to give 2 months notice.

If the agent/LL starts proceedings on the basis of the S21, write to the court and copy the LL explaining your S21 was invalid and explain why.

shadow1980

The LA didn't put my deposit into a DPS until approximately 1 year after I moved into the flat. However, when I signed my new six month contract on october 4th 2009, the letter I received from the DPS has the date of my deposit being paid in on the same day that my new six month contract started. So, the whole year I was here, my deposit wasn't protected, it was only when I started my new six month contract that I found out it had been deposited. I'm just not sure if the way around the s21 being invalid would count as the dates match my new contract and the date my LA put my deposit into a DPS.