Parking Fine and Warrant of Execution

kakdulac

Back last summer I took my Nan shopping to a large town nearby and parked with her Blue Badge on a yellow line. I later received a letter from the local council saying I was parked on a loading bay so got a PCN. I wrote back explaining about the Blue badge and that it was not a loading bay and heard no more. A couple of weeks ago I had a note from a bailiff chasing payment and the fine that was £115.00 is now about £400.00. I spoke to the bailiff and explained that I had heard nothing from a court about this and he said for parking tickets the court just issue the papers to a bailiff and let them collect the money. Now I dont have the car any longer and am on a low income as I am studying part time. I live with my Mum and other than my clothes I dont really have any possesions of any worth.
Yesterday I received a warrant of execution so I called the Bailiff who was very agressive and said he could come to my Mums and just take what he wanted. I spoke to my Mum who in turn spoke to him and she told him he had no right of entry.
I then called the council who gave me a reference no at court and was told to call them to see what can be done. I am really afraid to even open the door now as the bailiff was really agressive.
Is he right and where do I stand?

NickWarren_2

If the bailiff has a court warrant to enter the property then you cannot stop him doing so, And if you try to do so he will just call the police.

I believe that only if you can prove something belongs to someone other than you then they cannot take it.

Also bear in mind that Bailiff's can only add on so much in charges for visits etc and they have to be deemed to be acceptable.

For example when I got a CCJ I recieved an un announced visit from a court appointed bailiff, but was not home at the time. They turned up in a van to remove goods to the value of the debt, But as this was their first visit They gave me another 7 days, But charged me £115 for coming to the house.

Being as you this sounds like it has gone through the court already I do not think that you have much recourse, And my only advice would to be to try and come to a payment arrangement with the bailiffs, But make sure you can afford it! You will probably have to offer £X amount up front and £x per month.

Sorry i couldn't be any more help.

P.S Is this actually a BAILIFF or a DCA (debt collection agency)? If it is a DCA then they have no legal power to enter your property or take possesions unless you let them in. They have the same power as your postman, Sweet F.A! Although this does sound like a bailiff and not a DCA

Enfieldian

I think that you need to file an Out Of Time Statutory Declaration.

I did this once, years ago, after foolishly having given a Bailiff £100 to get rid of him, got the case taken back to the council, the £100 was refunded and the council then cancelled the ticket entirely as it had not been served correctly.

neilmcl

The following may help with what bailiffs can or cannot do. A bailiff cannot force entry into your property, unless they have an inland revenue warrant.

http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/debt_basics/bailiff-guide.php

DaveF327

I feel that there is more to this story than we're being told. Where was the Notice to Owner? How was the council written to? By filling in the relevant sections of the NTO? or on a letter addressed to an unknown department?

Given advice from lawyers that it's pointless suing people who have no money, it's hard to believe that any bailiff has any right to take what isn't the debtor's (i.e. enter Mum's house and take her things). You don't have to let any bailiff enter premises on a first visit (except in exceptional cases such as recovery of council tax or HMRC taxes)

ScottishSapper

Unless a Board Guide does it first i suggest you repost this in the most relevent Board : Parking Fines, Tickets etc at the top of the page
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.html?f=163

They will be more helpfull and can point you to other Forums

kakdulac

DaveF327 wrote: »

I feel that there is more to this story than we're being told. Where was the Notice to Owner? How was the council written to? By filling in the relevant sections of the NTO? or on a letter addressed to an unknown department?

Given advice from lawyers that it's pointless suing people who have no money, it's hard to believe that any bailiff has any right to take what isn't the debtor's (i.e. enter Mum's house and take her things). You don't have to let any bailiff enter premises on a first visit (except in exceptional cases such as recovery of council tax or HMRC taxes)

All there is is to this story is what I have told you. I received a letter from the council with a picture of the car attached. As I have said I wrote back in response saying I was displaying my Nan's Blue Badge and heard nothing back. I unfortunatly did not send it recorded delivery. When I rang the council yesterday they said they never heard from me at all. I had a computer meltdown at at the moment cant access all my data ( although a friend is working on it) so hopefully the copy letter is on there. The letter was addressed to the department who sent it to me.
I have looked it up on various debt websites and it appears the bailiff can only enter if he is from Inland Revenue. So the bailiff is blowing a smokescreen. Will let you know what happens today when I speak to the court.

DaveMacD

Ultimately though, using a blue badge doesn't usually give you permission to park on a yellow line. Seems they are being a bit overzealous for what is in effect, not a huge amount of cash in the first place.

casper_g

DaveMacD wrote: »

Ultimately though, using a blue badge doesn't usually give you permission to park on a yellow line.

It does though. From here:
"Badge holders may park on single or double yellow lines for up to three hours in England and Wales except where there is a ban on loading or unloading, and at a few locations where local schemes apply, such as parts of central London.... There is no time limit for parking on yellow lines in Scotland."

ETA: I see the council assert that the car was in a loading bay. Presumably where parking is prohibited by a yellow line and loading is not restricted, a blue badge gets you 3 hours' parking, but in a place where the restriction on parking is implied by a "loading only" sign, the blue badge is no good? Weird, since without the blue badge the two locations are equivalent i.e., loading allowed but not parking!

RobertoMoir

DaveF327 wrote: »

Given advice from lawyers that it's pointless suing people who have no money, it's hard to believe that any bailiff has any right to take what isn't the debtor's (i.e. enter Mum's house and take her things).

Bailiffs can't take goods that belong to someone other than the debtor, period. There is obviously an issue with proving who the goods belong to at the debtor's address otherwise you could just shrug and say "not mine mate, sorry" whenever a bailiff called and looked at anything in your house. (Actually there's a few bits of legal jiggery-pokery that can have this effect but that's irrelevant right now).

In any case, their powers of entry, such as they are, and their rights to take goods from the property are severely cut back if its not the debtor's own home.

For this kind of thing though, its customary to go after the car. After all the bailiff already knows the debtor probably owns one and they will probably have details of what car it is too.

You don't have to let any bailiff enter premises on a first visit (except in exceptional cases such as recovery of council tax or HMRC taxes)

That's not quite right, with regards to allowing entry and council tax.
Bailiffs can force entry unmprompted for things like magistrates courts fines and that's about it. (we'll leave the taxman aside for the moment, whole other game).

They can't force entry for council tax or most other kinds of debt unless you sign something called a walking possession agreement.

Anyway... the OP should read this webpage and follow the advice carefully.

RobertoMoir

NickWarren wrote: »

If the bailiff has a court warrant to enter the property then you cannot stop him doing so, And if you try to do so he will just call the police.

See my comments in other reply for bailiffs and forcing entry.
As for police, they should get involved in this kind of thing only to prevent breaches of the peace.

I believe that only if you can prove something belongs to someone other than you then they cannot take it.

Strictly speaking, if its at your property and there's no reasonable indication otherwise, a bailiff can assume its your goods and behave accordingly. There are ways to correct the inevitable mistakes this causes, of course.

Also bear in mind that Bailiff's can only add on so much in charges for visits etc and they have to be deemed to be acceptable.

The court's ideas of "acceptable" would dismay most MSE members I think.

For example when I got a CCJ I recieved an un announced visit from a court appointed bailiff, but was not home at the time. They turned up in a van to remove goods to the value of the debt, But as this was their first visit They gave me another 7 days, But charged me £115 for coming to the house.

CCJ enforcement is quite different to this sort of thing. It is never the bailiff who has any powers to do anything beyond the legal rights and responsibilities we all have, it is always the kind of warrant they are enforcing that dictates what they can and can not do. With the right kind of warrant behind them a bailiff can arrest you. With no warrant behind them at all, the bailiff can't 'seize' so much as a papercup of orange juice from you.