disciplinary help please - SUSPENDED!!!

longwalks1

lady_wolfs_head wrote: »

Is she in a union?, I had same problems at work. She must see a union rep and she is entitled to her own person in the hearing. In fact at the very start she should have been asked if she wanted someone in the meeting. If she wasn't asked then she has some grounds there. From my experience the person taking the meeting has a note taker and must ask if the person wants someone with them.
I always had someone with me and I was always in the union.
As for the emptying locker stuff, she should not have been treated that way she had'nt been sacked.
She must go to the citizens advise for help and join a union Usdaw is best for shop workers.

Thanks lady wolf
Unfortunately she isnt in a union, I am in Unite so can i get advice from my helpline maybe? (obviously wont get a rep to sit in tho) I was involved in a withhunt many years ago for forwarding on joke emails and got off on the technicality my first interview i was told i wouldnt need someone in with me, only to find out in there, they was taking notes and it was actually me being interviewed, went to my disciplinary hearing and got off on that. Her manager had a note taker (her store manager), but she wasnt offered someone to sit in, if she's dismissed next week is this clear grounds to appeal? (is it a written rule you have to be offered someone sit in with you? - excuse my ignorance) and how would she fight the decision without being in a union?

She felt humiliated being walked to her locker, watched empty it and walked out the store (via back entrance), and has already been told by a couple of good friends who work there, that the other girl has been dancing around the shop floor saying how she's got my gf sacked!! (the girl is very immature and childish, even before all this went off)

Thanks again for your positive help and advice everyone, its very much appreciated

longwalks1

Emmzi wrote: »

my gut reaction from the management side would be "she's throwing a sickie to avoid nfacing up to this" and it would limit my sympathy. .

Your right Emmzi, could well be viewed in that way, but i can assure you (and anyone else on here) she isnt in any fit state to work at the moment, or trave linto London alone, as she never really travels into the city. Surely if a qualified doctor has seen her and signed her off, that is a little more professional medical judgement than some manager of a shop?

ecgirl07

Britishboy - look at tackling the allegation of bullying - a one off text with no verbal or electronic contact either side can not be recognised as "bullying", in schools bullying has to be a regular occurrence, therefore i presume the same to apply to the workplace, check acas for their definition of bullying and use this as the crux of your GF's defence.

edit to add link
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=797

Horace

As I said before she can ask for an adjournment of the hearing. Yes, it is tough suffering from stress - I have been there myself but what I was trying to say is that management may well think that your g/f has decided on going sick again even though supported by a note because she has been asked to attend a hearing.

There must have been something else going on for your g/f to have been suspended which is why I was thinking that she probably hasn't told you the whole truth (it does happen and saw it time and time again when I was a union official). I sincerely hope that she retains her job and that she asks for an adjournment of the hearing - she needs to eat humble pie and apologise for sending the text message and promise not to do it again.

olly300

britishboy wrote: »

Sorry Olly, tbh i didnt want to broadcast to everyone and their dog that she has been off with stress and depression (with a valid doctors certificate for the doubters) following several incidents last year.

I have sent you a PM which should help you.

Now you understand why people wanted more information as with only the brief details you can not get full help.

Also you didn't need to be so graphic on the causes you just need to state the condition and the time frame it has occurred over. ( So you can go back and remove the rest of the bits I've not included in the quote. )

olly300

Horace wrote: »

As I said before she can ask for an adjournment of the hearing. Yes, it is tough suffering from stress - I have been there myself but what I was trying to say is that management may well think that your g/f has decided on going sick again even though supported by a note because she has been asked to attend a hearing.

Horace it's a continuous condition which complicates matters.

She is suffering from both stress and depression. So suffering from one or the other is different. Plus it affects people in different ways.

And hopeful the g/f is getting more specialised help than just help from the GP.

Horace wrote: »

There must have been something else going on for your g/f to have been suspended which is why I was thinking that she probably hasn't told you the whole truth (it does happen and saw it time and time again when I was a union official).

Yes her work could have been sub-standard but with the state the gf is in she wouldn't know.

Horace wrote: »

I sincerely hope that she retains her job and that she asks for an adjournment of the hearing - she needs to eat humble pie and apologise for sending the text message and promise not to do it again.

While she needs to apologise it also looks like she needs help in getting back to work.

Emmzi

britishboy wrote: »

Your right Emmzi, could well be viewed in that way, but i can assure you (and anyone else on here) she isnt in any fit state to work at the moment, or trave linto London alone, as she never really travels into the city. Surely if a qualified doctor has seen her and signed her off, that is a little more professional medical judgement than some manager of a shop?

It may mean they dismiss for ill health not bullying. Right now there is an opportunity to address the bullying charge. There may not be an opportunity to contest an ill health dismissal.

Misshomme

britishboy wrote: »

Sick note provided, signed by a doctor and handed to manager as required to, amazes me how many people can assume she's takin a few weeks off for the fun of it, let me tell you the last few weeks (before all this text crap) have been anything but fun

Thank you to those who have shown a little understanding

It amazes me how you assumed I thought she was making it up!! I wasn't saying that at all. I don't think you read all of my post. I was saying that if she is sick and can provide a sick note then they don't have grounds for sacking her, but they can for misconduct over this petty text incident.

I research reasons for dismissal when myself and a 100 other people were made redundant. Your gfs company has to have a good reason for dismissal otherwise the company can be taken to an employment tribunal. They may not be able to dismiss your gf for sickness if she provides a sick note and her doctor can see she is genuinely ill, but they can sack her for misconduct. I get the impression that they are using the text message excuse because no one is there to cover your gf while she is off sick and they need someone else in her place. I have been off work with stress and depression so no I am not saying she is doing this for the fun of it!

Horace

Misshomme wrote: »

It amazes me how you assumed I thought she was making it up!! I wasn't saying that at all. I don't think you read all of my post. I was saying that if she is sick and can provide a sick note then they don't have grounds for sacking her, but they can for misconduct over this petty text incident.

I research reasons for dismissal when myself and a 100 other people were made redundant. Your gfs company has to have a good reason for dismissal otherwise the company can be taken to an employment tribunal. They may not be able to dismiss your gf for sickness if she provides a sick note and her doctor can see she is genuinely ill, but they can sack her for misconduct. I get the impression that they are using the text message excuse because no one is there to cover your gf while she is off sick and they need someone else in her place. I have been off work with stress and depression so no I am not saying she is doing this for the fun of it!

Misshomme - the employer can dismiss someone because they are sick on grounds of incapability regardless of how many doctors notes have been provided especially if the person has been on long term sick leave and there is little chance of them returning...employers have to keep their businesses afloat and cannot afford to have a member of staff on permanent sick leave.

One thing about talking to the employer is that they may not realise the full extent of the g/f's medical problems which are impacting on her ability to work, she may also be able to come to some arrangement about returning to work on a phased return basis over several weeks. The longer she stays at home the longer it will take for her to return if she returns at all...hence the need for a phased return to work.

It is unfortunate that your g/f was escorted from the premises but I understand that this is not an uncommon occurrence with department stores who may have asked that she not stay on the premises whilst the investigation is being carried out.

Misshomme

Horace wrote: »

Misshomme - the employer can dismiss someone because they are sick on grounds of incapability regardless of how many doctors notes have been provided especially if the person has been on long term sick leave and there is little chance of them returning...employers have to keep their businesses afloat and cannot afford to have a member of staff on permanent sick leave.

One thing about talking to the employer is that they may not realise the full extent of the g/f's medical problems which are impacting on her ability to work, she may also be able to come to some arrangement about returning to work on a phased return basis over several weeks. The longer she stays at home the longer it will take for her to return if she returns at all...hence the need for a phased return to work.

It is unfortunate that your g/f was escorted from the premises but I understand that this is not an uncommon occurrence with department stores who may have asked that she not stay on the premises whilst the investigation is being carried out.

Yes she can be dismissed for long term sickness and if her illness stops her from returning to work, but companies are supposed to find alternative routes first like easing her back in to the job or if it's the job itself causing stress, finding something else within the company that might be better for them. I think it would be harder to sack this lady due to stress/depression than it would be for a supposed misconduct. At the moment I don't think this lady would have been on sick long enough to be dismissed and they might not see stress/depression as something that would keep her from coming back to work at some point.