Advice please - starting catering business

lincroft1710

Unless I've missed it (I'm old!) the one thing you haven't mentioned is existing competition which should be coupled with potential market.

Rich08

yumyums wrote: »

Oh I forgot to add...
Is it a bad idea to go into this sort of business without any experience of the business side of things? I haven't even worked in catering before so would it be best to try to get some work experience first?
I am good at the cooking bits but I understand the record-keeping side isn't too straightforward with having to ensure that all your ingredients are traceable etc. I don't know the first thing about running a business so would it be extremely risky to try to start out on my own?

Hi
Not too much to add to the advice you ve already received but having spent the last 30 years as a chef (just putting my foot in the water to see if ill make a career of it ) id strongly recommend gaining some experience first in a well organised company as the pitfalls are plentiful what with basic health and hygiene,suppliers being sought,accounts,HACCP,COSSH,CCPs(non food)marketing,menu and SOP formulation etc etc.
On a more positive note seeing how others are succeeding will not only help you use the business model but also help spawn new ideas .

It will id imagine seem quite daunting to someone fresh to catering but that said once you have a grounding in your specific area you will soon find your feet.

Perhaps the way to go is working for someone else for now whilst building your own business from home so when you "go live" you already have a client base and knowledge to build on(I noted your point in not wanting to work from your home kitchen but its fairly straight forward meeting EHO requirements assuming you have a kitchen only area)(no laundering etc done in the kitchen for example)...oh and more as a way to keep your business seperate than EHO reasons id recommend seperate refrigeration for business and private use(any fridge will be open to inspection anyhow but much easier to store/re order stock etc if the business is seperate)

Just a few random thoughts but the best of luck with your plans

yumyums

Wow! Thanks for all the really detailed replies everyone.

I will definitely look into getting some work experience as soon as possible. Hopefully I can explain to them that I'd also like to learn about the business side & paperwork instead of just cutting up fruit for example.

I'm currently doing a patisserie course so I am learning what a strain it puts on my back in particular but I do feel I am slowly getting more fit (I am changing careers - was doing a desk job previously).

I'm only in London for probably 3 more months then will be moving to Wales. I will have to do my research as I haven't seen too many shops selling the types of products I want to offer where we'll possibly be moving to. I want to do more upmarket things than what you get in Greggs etc... Think Patisserie Valerie / Paul - but nicer! I'll have to make sure there's a market for artisan bread, french style gateaux, fresh, all-butter pastries and so on. I can also make classics such as brownies, cakes, scones and cookies.

I really need to get a clear idea of the exact format my business will take. I've got so many ideas spinning around in my head from supplying to other small businesses who don't make their own food / catering for events etc or making celebration cakes to order for individual customers to even possibly having a small cafe (in which case the kitchen issue goes away)

Thanks for the advice on using my own kitchen. As we're moving anyway, I'll try to keep an eye out for a house with a separate utility room to do the laundry in and a way to keep pets out. This way I can possibly use my own kitchen while I'm doing it on a small scale and building up business.

paulwf

What part of Wales are you moving to? London is in a bit of a bubble food wise, once you go beyond 1 hour commuting distance by train from London the patisserie market does seem to drop off. There is a good market for artisan bread though, and as bread is a staple not a treat you may get more repeat custom.

Will there be a farmers market when you move so that you can do a trial to see how viable your idea will be?

With baking the key to success will be to find a way to sell enough so that you can cook large batches in bulk, it takes as long to make 50 scones as it does 10 for example. Long term this can be achieved by selling in a number of ways, for example the local artisan bakery also has a stall at the farmers market and supplies several shops. What was my local deli also did event catering and supplied several shops...the more strings to your bow the better.

yumyums

paulwf wrote: »

What part of Wales are you moving to? London is in a bit of a bubble food wise, once you go beyond 1 hour commuting distance by train from London the patisserie market does seem to drop off. There is a good market for artisan bread though, and as bread is a staple not a treat you may get more repeat custom.

Will there be a farmers market when you move so that you can do a trial to see how viable your idea will be?

With baking the key to success will be to find a way to sell enough so that you can cook large batches in bulk, it takes as long to make 50 scones as it does 10 for example. Long term this can be achieved by selling in a number of ways, for example the local artisan bakery also has a stall at the farmers market and supplies several shops. What was my local deli also did event catering and supplied several shops...the more strings to your bow the better.

Will be moving somewhere in / around the brecon beacons - not very specific I know! I've had a look and there are farmers markets taking place in various towns on different days of the month. Would it be a good idea to try a few different ones out to see which items are popular?

I understand your point about the patisserie market outside of London. I guess there's not a lot of point trying to sell Mille Feuille if no one knows what it is. Plus a lot of patisserie items are very perishable therefore will be harder to store and might spoil if not sold quickly as they have such a short shelf life.

Pennywise

I wouldn't be too put off by your lack of catering and business experience. We all have to start somewhere and "doing it" is far better than learning about how to do it.

I wonder if you'd be best trying to build up your catering and business experience on something else though instead of what you really want to do. I don't think it's a good idea starting from a "zero" base into something which could be quite costly to set up and with an unknown market - the risks are very high and you could be risking your financial future if things don't turn out well. You'd be better doing your "training" on something else a lot less costly, a bit easier, and a bit less risky - something where you could learn on the job without the hassles and stress of risking a catastrophic failure.

From what I've seen of other "people with a passion about something" is that they get too hung up on the quality and individuality and all common sense goes out of the window. They know they're producing something wonderful, whether it is food, art, clothing, jewellery, or whatever, but they fail because they either don't price it right, don't have a target market, or simply don't have the business acumen to manage the customers, suppliers, admin etc. properly.

If you came to me for business advice, I think I'd be recommending that you started something simple (or bought something established) - a completely different business for no other reason than to learn about business, customer service, stock control, pricing, supplier negotiations, book-keeping, tax, H&S, legalities, etc. I'm not necessarily thinking about a business earning huge amounts of money - I'm thinking more along the lines of something part-time, profitable enough but nothing more than a living wage, very low risk, relatively easy to run, etc.

I always like to recommend something very simple like a burger van or ice-cream van, simply because you can buy one, run it a few months, then sell it for probably the same price you paid, or buy a very short term (one season) lease on a small shop or cafe - something relatively cheap to buy, easy to run, but more importantly, easy to sell off again to someone else. The simpler the business the better, because you don't want to get involved with massive expansion, employing loads of people, extensions, etc - you just want something that will tick-over whilst you get to grips with how to do the book-keeping, how the business taxes work, working with business bank managers, dealing with business insurances, cash management, stock control, pricing, etc. Just stay with it long enough to learn and make business contacts - if you choose the wrong bank, it doesn't matter, nor the wrong accoutant or solicitor - you can try out such people when risks of them being useless are low, so that you have a "team" of the right people to help you with your proper business.

Once you've run it for a season, get rid and start planning for your own proper business. What you've learned will help you decide whether your initial plans are viable or not - maybe change your direction, crystallise your intentions and hopes.

I appreciate that a lot of people think starting small is the best way and you can work upwards if its successful, but I don't necessarily subscribe to that philosophy - sometimes it's best to have the courage of your convictions and go for the big time. Starting slow takes a lot of time and a lot of things done in the early stages have to be un-done later on, causing you more work and costs. Starting bigger avoids all the costs of expansion, such as moving premises a couple of times, each time costing money and causing business disruption. Also, when starting small, too many people make the mistake of pricing their goods and services on the basis of a very low overhead base which turns out fatal for many - because their growth is on the back of low price rather than quality or loyal customer base, so when their prices inevitably have to increase (i.e. when they become VAT registered, have to pay for larger premises, have to pay for staff, etc, etc), the customer base falls away at the very time they need all the sales they can get, result: failure. The answer is to work out your pricing based on your overhead level after growth and expansion, not based on today's artifically low overhead base whilst doing it all yourself working from home.

paulwf

yumyums wrote: »

Will be moving somewhere in / around the brecon beacons - not very specific I know! I've had a look and there are farmers markets taking place in various towns on different days of the month. Would it be a good idea to try a few different ones out to see which items are popular?

I would use it purely for risk free market research. For example price your bread at £1 at one market, £1.50 at the next location and £2 at the one after that. You could also try mini cupcakes, regular cupcakes and muffin sized cupcakes...whatever you want to find out for your business plan basically.

Plus a lot of patisserie items are very perishable therefore will be harder to store and might spoil if not sold quickly as they have such a short shelf life.

Wastage of both ingredients and the end product is something you have to factor in to your financial projections. You also need to think of your processes when selecting products, for example making 3 pastries that all use the same filling rather than having to make 3 different fillings. (It is quite common on restaurant menus to see "themes" e.g. where a sauce might be used in different ways as part of a starter, main course and side dish). You'll also want some simple lines that you can knock out in no time at all, so for every hand crafted sourdough loaf make sure you have something like sausage rolls that you can make in 5 minutes.

You might have come across my back of an envelope calculations on this board before but in case you haven't it is quite useful to play with some numbers to show the vast quantity of products you need to shift to make it a full time job. These figures are plucked out of the air but if for instance we assume you make a gross profit of £1 per cake and half of that goes on overheads you need to sell 40,000 cakes a year to draw a decent wage. That is obviously a VERY rough figure but you'll need a kitchen, the speed and the marketing ability to crank out around 150 cakes a day!

Savvy_Sue

yumyums wrote: »

I'm currently doing a patisserie course so I am learning what a strain it puts on my back in particular but I do feel I am slowly getting more fit (I am changing careers - was doing a desk job previously).

You really must be sure that your back is up to it before you start: whether that's a case of getting fitter, or maybe of buying the right equipment, a high stool and workstops at the right height for example. But once you've started, you may not be able to take a day off if it's all too much, and may do yourself serious damage.

yumyums wrote: »

I want to do more upmarket things than what you get in Greggs etc... Think Patisserie Valerie / Paul - but nicer! I'll have to make sure there's a market for artisan bread, french style gateaux, fresh, all-butter pastries and so on. I can also make classics such as brownies, cakes, scones and cookies.

And as has already been said, you absolutely MUST be sure the market is there and that people are prepared to pay the prices. We have a Patisserie Valerie nearby, and I have never done more than walk past and say "HOW much?" :eek:

paulwf wrote: »

With baking the key to success will be to find a way to sell enough so that you can cook large batches in bulk, it takes as long to make 50 scones as it does 10 for example.

Maybe it's a mark of my inexperience of large scale catering, but I'd say not in MY kitchen! The mixing takes longer for a larger batch, the rolling out and cutting and putting on trays takes longer, and the cooking takes longer too. There may be economies of speed to be made, but you've got to really hone your skills!

Rich08

Hello again
Wow your getting some really useful advice and its interesting to read other peoples perspectives.
Although i remain in the start small and see how it goes camp for the primary reason that catering does have a high failure rate and minimising costs initially not only avoids any long term financial damage but gives you an opportunity to test your market place and learn at your on pace.

Im actually scouring these boards just now as im assisting setting up my wife in her own small baby gift business and its amazing how similiar the control measures are to her business(something i know little about) compared to catering (something im very comfortable in)are,so i guess there is merit in venturing into something else to get to grips with with the accounts etc.However the biggest single hurdle we ve encountered so far is sourcing genuine baby wear wholesalers and whilst i could find a wholrsaler of the most obscure food item easily i have nt a clue how to find a baby wear wholesaler that is both genuine and offering quality products(my point being that the more one focuses on the business concerned the more contacts will be made.

Your comment on your back strain is a very real issue and advice i give to young chefs starting out is to plan their workload so that they are nt stopped over a table for hours but split the workload up so that they keep moving around(poor example follows.....if you were making choux buns then maybe pipe half then go off and do the filling before returning to complete the batch..heyy i did say it was a poor example but hopefully you get my point)

I dont think i am permitted to post web site links here but it would be really worth your while looking up the "american chefs forum" and reading the professional bakery section as there is a fine mix of both seasoned pros and new start ups there with a plethora of ideas although obviously the legal and accounting remarks wont be of much use for a uk business but im finding some really useful courses on the business gateway site (Im in no way connected other than someone that reads the pro chef forums there)


Anyways... good luck and if you go ahead i hope you enjoy the many positive aspects of catering :beer:

Owain_Moneysaver

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

You can't take a day off sick if you've got an order due,

If you've got certain types of illness that is exactly what you must do, by law - it is possible to get a loss of profit due to illness insurance policy