Puppy advice urgently needed!!

cinderellacomplex

We do isolate her as soon as she barks

Time spent in time outs is time wasted. Time that could be spent teaching her what you do want.

It is scientifically proven that we learn more from our successes than we do from our failures. Something to do with brainwaves changing when we are rewarded for doing good, yet they remain the same when we are punished or not rewarded for getting it wrong.

Personally I think that you are on the right track with the time outs but maybe not approaching it in the best way. Ignoring a dog should be enough to let them know that their tactic isn't working, you shouldn't have to isolate them. If they continue to bark then a gruff 'quiet' before continuing to ignore them usually settles them. The most important part of this approach is giving them no positive reinforcement (attention) while they are barking, but after they have been quiet for a little while (really only a minute or so with young puppies, don't wait too long) you should reward them with attention.

Tug is a great game but people's opinions are so divided on it! I personally like it but think that it goes without saying that if your pup is acting as though he thinks that he is top dog then you should cut the number of times that he wins temporarily. You don't have to break his spirit, just remind him that you are bigger, stronger, tougher and smarter and that he should keep that in mind :P

I guess that it goes without saying that I still believe in alpha theory.. Anything can be proven scientifically, statistics are only numbers and you need to look beyond them for the real story. At the end of the day what I would suggest is pick the approach that you feel most comfortable with and stick to it! Consistency alone gets you half way there

About food, I agree that bakers is trash but it's not your fault.. It takes a lot of research to find good foods when companies are pretty much allowed to spout whatever nonsense they like on the packaging. I tried my border collie pup on a few that I thought were fab from the ingredients list.. nothing really worked until I picked up a packet of Wainwright's Puppy in Pets at Home one day.. it's a good food (for her at least) and relatively inexpensive compared to some of the others that I tried.

Silveralice

Bother, just wrote a long reply and my broadband connection went down and ate it, so sorry but this will be briefer in case the same thing happens!
Short version - I am a vet and completely agree with sarabe that socialisation is more important than completing vaccinations before going out, particularly when vaccinations start late as in this case. If she were my puppy I would get her outside to meet lots of friendly, healthy vaccinated dogs and into lots of different areas ASAP, but avoid the highest risk places - especially anywhere damp where you suspect there are rats (because rat urine carries leptospirosis, one of the diseases we vaccinate against). This is what I do with my own puppies - I accept the very slight risk that they pick up one of the diseases we vaccinate against (diseases that we only see a few times a year in our semi-rural practice), and get them out early because of the advantages from early socialisation. It's a hard call to make, but after all it's basically what we do with human babies, unless they have special health issues!

sarabe

cinderellacomplex wrote: »

....
Tug is a great game but people's opinions are so divided on it! I personally like it but think that it goes without saying that if your pup is acting as though he thinks that he is top dog then you should cut the number of times that he wins temporarily. You don't have to break his spirit, just remind him that you are bigger, stronger, tougher and smarter and that he should keep that in mind :P

I guess that it goes without saying that I still believe in alpha theory.. Anything can be proven scientifically, statistics are only numbers and you need to look beyond them for the real story. At the end of the day what I would suggest is pick the approach that you feel most comfortable with and stick to it! Consistency alone gets you half way there

....

There are people who believe that the earth is flat. Then there are those that believe that the universe is less than 10,000 years old and was created in 6 days and that dinosaurs never existed, despite evidence to the contrary.

I'm not a scientist but I have read a lot of the evidence with regard to how dogs live in groups. I've referenced loads on here before. I would be genuinely interested to see any recent scientific evidence that proves the Alpha theory.

The pack leader stuff is all just labels. You are your dog's pack leader. I am not my dogs' pack leader. What difference does it make? Probably none to you or me. You have a pack of well behaved dogs and I have a group of well trained dogs.

Where it does make a difference however is when people think that their dog is being dominant and start with the dominance reduction stuff before they have even considered training the dog in a way that the dog understands.

The puppy jumps up - he is being dominant.

Dog won't recall - he is being dominant.

Dog humps your leg - he is being dominant.

Dog guards his food - he is being dominant.

The list goes on and on. You would not believe some of the reasons that people give me for thinking that their dog is dominant.


And how come if you are the pack leader your dog knows that you are the boss but if the dog is dominant, he only thinks he is the boss.

The problem with all this dominance, pack leader, Alpha stuff that abounds at the moment is that everyone is a expert at diagnosing a dog's problem. So now we get a 4 month old puppy that is biting, seriously biting the owners because when they went to the vet for the first jab the vet was rough, the pup snapped, and the vet pinned the puppy and told the owners "Ooh you've got a dominant one 'ere. Don't let him get away with that and so the owners continue to pin the puppy to the floor whenever he is 'naughty'

Or the person with the rescue Collie that is frightened of people, making great progress until a visiting uncle jabs the dog in the neck and hisses at her when she barks at him because that is what that bloke on the telly does to dominant dogs.

Sorry. End of rant. (for now)

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle

Oh come on - seriously that was an exageration! Anyone who has watched the show knows it's a touch not a jab and i know the so called hiss is the same as my sharp 'shhh!' which i have been doing for years and it works for ours. If they don't then they clearly don't have enough common sense to be a pet owner!

True, 'Alpha' dog' can be used as a label - but common sense prevails in this household and i am happy with the way my dogs are affectionate AND obedient...i have yet to have a problem and i trust they will continue to stay that way.

There will always be different methods, just as there are sooooo many different theories in the way which should discipline our children. I'm sorry but i think the same goes for our pets...you do what suits you AND your pets. Both myself and the other poster who agreed with the alpha dog theory respected and acknowledged that different dog owners will have different methods. Please have some respect for us too...as i said i have reasons for bringing my dogs up the way i have, becuase it suits our situation and hasn't been done to follow any trainer OR tv show, simply our own common sense! The OP needs to take what advice she feels will help her and her pet and trial and error is often the best way to learn! Every situation and household will have different needs please try to take this on board!

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle

As i said to, yes i agree with the alpha dog theory but you have to use it well, not abuse it. That said i certainly don't watch ANY dog show or take any dog trainers article to gospel - you take what you need and work it to your own personal situation. Too often people lack common sense and follow a so called experts advice down to a T and then can't understand why it doesn't work for them. Use your head people!

Sorry Sarabe, i don't mean to be defensive but it does come accross that you disregard others opinions and think we are ignorant for thinking certain things. I certainly gave your opinion respect, i never once said it was wrong and i think you should have the same respect for the opinions of others. Sorry if you didn't mean to come accross this way, it's just how i read it - i honestly do respect and agree with most of what you have said just upset at the way you appear to have attacked our advice. I think we all need to respect one anothers opinions

sarabe

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle wrote: »

Oh come on - seriously that was an exageration! Anyone who has watched the show knows it's a touch not a jab and i know the so called hiss is the same as my sharp 'shhh!' which i have been doing for years and it works for ours. If they don't then they clearly don't have enough common sense to be a pet owner!

True, 'Alpha' dog' can be used as a label - but common sense prevails in this household and i am happy with the way my dogs are affectionate AND obedient...i have yet to have a problem and i trust they will continue to stay that way.

There will always be different methods, just as there are sooooo many different theories in the way which should discipline our children. I'm sorry but i think the same goes for our pets...you do what suits you AND your pets. Both myself and the other poster who agreed with the alpha dog theory respected and acknowledged that different dog owners will have different methods. Please have some respect for us too...as i said i have reasons for bringing my dogs up the way i have, becuase it suits our situation and hasn't been done to follow any trainer OR tv show, simply our own common sense! The OP needs to take what advice she feels will help her and her pet and trial and error is often the best way to learn! Every situation and household will have different needs please try to take this on board!

I don't watch the show but Uncle Alf did and he jabbed or touched the dog in the neck and hissed or shssed at her and undid all the good work that the owner had done.

You misunderstand if you think I am being disrespectful to you. I acknowledged that you are your dog's pack leader and that you have a pack of well behaved dogs. How is that being disrespectful?

my_gorgeous_ellie-belle

Ok fair enough -sorry for reading your post in the wrong context. But then clearly 'Uncle Alf' AND the owner were in the wrong - who on earth gave him the right to attempt to discipline the dog?

I think maybe you should watch the show, not for any advice, just as its an interesting watch - as you'll see its a hell of a lot more about the psychological side of the dogs behaviour and then working to a solution that suits the whole family. It's certainly not like one UK show i know of that the dog trainer does everything by the book, treating every dog and family as the same and doesn't think any further into why this INDIVIDUAL of a dog may be behaving in a certain way. That one makes me cringe!

As i said, no one person has ALL the answers, hell, there aren't answers to everything anyway which is why we need to try things out and use what works for us

foreign_correspondent

Totally agree with all Sarabe has said - you have also got a bouncy young pup of a working breed - she will need plenty of stimulation, and get her off the Bakers pronto.

There seems to be a trend of breeders not vaccing pups and claiming it is because so many pups die after reactions to jabs/ all vets have different schedules etc... I understood that decent breeders did get 1st vaccs done and assume, as does the OP that this is just a money saver for the breeder... ?

Do you know what is causing the cough?

jennyo

Is your pup being treated for kennel cough ? I have no medical knowledge, but do work with dogs on a daily basis, I think after all this while the vet needs to be checking, have they listened to her heart ?

emsywoo123

jennyo wrote: »

Is your pup being treated for kennel cough ? I have no medical knowledge, but do work with dogs on a daily basis, I think after all this while the vet needs to be checking, have they listened to her heart ?

Hi, she is on the third combo of drugs, vet hopeful this will crack it. I am not convinced.:o
She has been checked by a leading cardiologist, and heart all ok