Alliance & Leicester faster payments

jamesd

GraceCourt, yes, it's a pretty unimpressive effort. Not even bothering to tell people whether faster payments will be used, as Natwest/RBS and First Direct/HSBC do is pretty poor also, denying customers the chance to act appropriately based on how the money will go.

Toe-Jam

jamesd wrote: »

GraceCourt, yes, it's a pretty unimpressive effort. Not even bothering to tell people whether faster payments will be used, as Natwest/RBS and First Direct/HSBC do is pretty poor also, denying customers the chance to act appropriately based on how the money will go.

I thought A&L was using the Santander system now. It's pretty clear on it what way your money is being sent. Its just a pain only having a £300 per day limit.

Dr_Cuckoo3

Toe-Jam wrote: »

I thought A&L was using the Santander system now. It's pretty clear on it what way your money is being sent. Its just a pain only having a £300 per day limit.

No A&L are not using the new Santander platform shown in your screenshot currently
The "Quick transfer" facility on the left is similar to A&L's and in the same place though

Your screenshot differs from the old Santander platform too

My Ex - Abbey internet banking appears to have changed to the new style and I am unable to view my accounts as I have not registered a mobile phone

I am unable to proceed past the OTP page - "prefer to register later" is no longer an option

I can still access an transact on my A&L and Ex - Abbey accounts using A&L internet banking platform fortunately - but for how much longer ?

Milarky

Dr_Cuckoo3 wrote: »

No A&L are not using the new Santander platform shown in your screenshot currently
The "Quick transfer" facility on the left is similar to A&L's and in the same place though

That's right: A&L uses the following advice only - nothing concerning payment route and timescale.

Payments / transfer - confirm details03 July 2011
Please check the details of the payment you have set up from the account below are correct. If any of the details shown are incorrect, select ‘Previous’ to amend.

It has just occurred to me that you can take a note of the time of a payment from the 'account activity' screen before logging off - which provides a precise time for any transfer. But, of course, that disappears the 'next day'!


As regards the changes from 1 Jan 2012, I don't see any step change occurring here because they apply to 'batch'-type ('diarised') payments, not the instantaneous kind we've all come to rely on. If I were running A&L/Santander, for example, I could simply instigate a small 'fix' whereby any payment I chose not to allow to feed into instantaneous Faster Payments (anything over £300, a second payment to the same payee or an attempt to make payment within '24 hours' - however I defined it) is offered on a 'next working day' batch process. You know the sort of thing - the 'Halifax Defence' - "Unfortunately we cannot send your payment at this time blah, blah.."

I can also make a silly cut off time for this - say 5.30 Monday to Friday only (not including bank holidays) and hey presto, I have a 'good-to-go' PSD complaint scheme.

Whilst there is no 'reason' for banks to wind back the clock and rein in on instantaneous payments - there seems to be nothing to deter them from doing that and getting away with it.

[I hope I am wrong about this, btw]

Chris2000

cottager wrote: »

I read on the Halifax website that they're anticipating complying with D+1 earlier than the new year. Coming from one of the institutions with a chequered history with the implementation of Faster Payments, that is encouraging! They say: "The majority of payments you send from the 7th November 2011 will arrive by the next working day, whereas previously, payments often took up to 4 days."

Yes, Halifax and Lloyds are currently notifying customers of a change to T&C for current and savings accounts. From 7 Nov all payments will be Faster Payments, if available. The new Halifax T&C include:

"We may not be able to carry out a payment instruction if the organisation you are sending the payment to is not a member of the Faster Payments scheme."

"If we cannot make the payment using the Faster Payments scheme you can contact us to ask if there is any other method available to make the payment."

That could get interesting as there are still plenty of sort codes that don't accept Faster Payments including Cahoot current accounts (09-06-40) and some credit cards - including Halifax and Lloyds!

pmduk

Let me clarify your clarification

GraceCourt wrote: »

May I clarify that? Santander is useless, full stop.

There's no need to restrict it to the FP System

Chris2000

Milarky wrote: »

As regards the changes from 1 Jan 2012, I don't see any step change occurring here because they apply to 'batch'-type ('diarised') payments, not the instantaneous kind we've all come to rely on. If I were running A&L/Santander, for example, I could simply instigate a small 'fix' whereby any payment I chose not to allow to feed into instantaneous Faster Payments (anything over £300, a second payment to the same payee or an attempt to make payment within '24 hours' - however I defined it) is offered on a 'next working day' batch process. You know the sort of thing - the 'Halifax Defence' - "Unfortunately we cannot send your payment at this time blah, blah.."

Except that BACS doesn't currently meet the 'next working day' timescale and the banks insisted for years that it couldn't be made faster without massive investment.

It wouldn't surprise me if come 1 Jan 2012, BACS is suddenly able to work to a 'next working day' timescale after all, making a mockery of the banks' protestations over the last decade. Otherwise all payments from a payment account will have to go Faster Payments from 1 Jan, either immediately or batched up and sent overnight.

I can't see anything in the 2009 Regulations that restricts the next working day requirement to just batch-type payments.

So I am expecting a step change on 1 Jan, but mainly because I believe the banks have been deliberately delaying implementation of a next day system so they can continue earning interest on payments in transit for as long as possible.

cottager

Milarky wrote: »

Whilst there is no 'reason' for banks to wind back the clock and rein in on instantaneous payments - there seems to be nothing to deter them from doing that and getting away with it.

[I hope I am wrong about this, btw]

Chris2000 wrote: »

Except that BACS doesn't currently meet the 'next working day' timescale and the banks insisted for years that it couldn't be made faster without massive investment.

It wouldn't surprise me if come 1 Jan 2012, BACS is suddenly able to work to a 'next working day' timescale after all, making a mockery of the banks' protestations over the last decade. Otherwise all payments from a payment account will have to go Faster Payments from 1 Jan, either immediately or batched up and sent overnight.

I can't see anything in the 2009 Regulations that restricts the next working day requirement to just batch-type payments.

So I am expecting a step change on 1 Jan ...

I'm sure there'll still be plenty of payments which don't go instantly by FP, but I agree it should (all being well, with a following wind, allowing for teething troubles and all the usual caveats which I think we're bound to encounter!) see the end of the waits on the current BACS timescales and reduce it to something better. And at last it will bring in a raft of organisations such as building societies which don't/can't operate FP outwards: where withdrawals from these accounts can be made electronically, at least they should take less time (even if still not same-day).

With the exception of bank holidays etc, even a Friday payment (even from somewhere like A&L/Santander) should be at its destination no later than the end of Monday, instead of Tuesday or even Wednesday. I agree they might put time windows in place, so this could be 'stretched' if those conditions aren't met -- we'll have to see.

Do we know if there will be any limit on amounts? -- not FPs as they have their own daily limits, but I mean for next-day credits if they don't go FP.

Milarky

cottager wrote: »

at last it will bring in a raft of organisations such as building societies which don't/can't operate FP outwards: where withdrawals from these accounts can be made electronically, at least they should take less time (even if still not same-day).

That's where I see the main improvement too - with the 'agency' banking operated by building societies etc - they'll just have to switch their instructions from BACS to 'Faster Payments' to comply. But (again) all these 'faster' payments aren't actually going instantaneously and customers will still have to request a transfer a full working day ahead of time - that's not using faster payments as they were designed (for customer initiated transfers) but then this directives is not about that aspect of (personal) banking is it?

Do we know if there will be any limit on amounts? -- not FPs as they have their own daily limits, but I mean for next-day credits if they don't go FP.

I believe banks etc will still control daily amounts and nothing in the directive addresses this.

BTW, do we know if building societies (etc) can continue offer only cheque withdrawal - negating the benefit of the speed up process - in place of these 'next day' transfers - since many still do not even offer BACS today?

cottager

Milarky wrote: »

... But (again) all these 'faster' payments aren't actually going instantaneously and customers will still have to request a transfer a full working day ahead of time - that's not using faster payments as they were designed (for customer initiated transfers) but then this directives is not about that aspect of (personal) banking is it?

True, but in time (yet MORE time! [sigh]) one assumes they will all gradually come into the UK's Faster Payments scheme. Meantime D+1 is an improvement.

I believe banks etc will still control daily amounts and nothing in the directive addresses this.

Ah, OK. I wonder if that will mean they could all be different...

BTW, do we know if building societies (etc) can continue offer only cheque withdrawal - negating the benefit of the speed up process - in place of these 'next day' transfers - since many still do not even offer BACS today?

Well, cheques and paper-based stuff don't come under the directive at all and there won't be any change to timescales with these, so I imagine any society (etc) with accounts which only offer 'manual' (non-electronic) withdrawals will stay just at they are. They won't be under any obligation by virtue of these changes to make all accounts 'electronic' and thus facilitate next-day payments. In fact I did wonder (rather uncharitably perhaps!) if some online accounts might go backwards and have that facility withdrawn!

In the revised T&Cs they've been or are issuing this is the distinction between 'qualifying' and 'non-qualifying' accounts: qualifying will be current accounts with internet banking facilities, online savings accounts and so on, while the rest will still be non-qualifying; but I believe they now have to make clear which type all their accounts are.