When will the Government come clean...

JP45

...over the scale and nature of the cuts in public expenditure?

They'll have an opportunity to do so in the forthcoming budget but I doubt that they will. The most likely answer, of course, is that they'll continue to keep us all in the dark until the election is safely out of the way.

However, as Martin Wolf makes clear in an excellent article in today's FT, there really is no excuse for the Government continuing to mislead the electorate:

Ed Balls, secretary of state for schools and Mr Brown’s closest associate, told another newspaper that he has been asked to make savings of £500m by 2013. That is 0.3 per cent of this year’s public sector net borrowing and 1 per cent of the spending of his own department, itself the third-largest spender after social security and health. This is simply risible.

Does Mr Brown stand behind the Treasury’s belief in the need for a structural fiscal tightening of 5.2 per cent of GDP (£73bn)? If he does stand behind these forecasts, what would his government do, if re-elected? Given the government’s access to the official machine, it has no excuse for not being clear about its answer to that simple question – except for the desire to deny reality. There is much reality to deny. To quote the Green Budget again, the cuts in spending ahead “would reverse almost all of the increase in departmental expenditure ... as a share of national income since Labour took office”. Labour, then, would have marched public spending to the top of the hill and marched it down again. Would Mr Brown do this? It would be a huge admission of failure. Is he even capable of such an admission?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/639f7ed2-2d48-11df-9c5b-00144feabdc0.html

Kohoutek

It would be really interesting to know how many people are voting Labour on the (false) assumption there will not be any big cuts after the election. I suspect beyond this forum, most Labour voters don't appreciate what's coming, regardless of who wins the election given Labour's propaganda tactics.

Is he even capable of such an admission?

Clearly Martin Wolf understands Gordon Brown's personality well! Of course not, he's never wrong. I saw a recent talk he did at the CBI where he was asked along the lines of 'everyone makes mistakes, especially CEOs, what mistakes do you regret?'. He just mumbled something about not pushing through a global financial regulator and tried to spin it into a positive.

Really2

The thing I heard today which caught my attention is that they would not increase taxes if they got another term (please no).

That then made me think that they will be increasing taxes in this budget. Otherwise how the hell are they planing to cut the deficit.

nearlynew

Don't forget though.........

All politicians are lying thieves.

StevieJ

Kohoutek wrote: »

It would be really interesting to know how many people are voting Labour on the (false) assumption there will not be any big cuts after the election. I suspect beyond this forum, most Labour voters don't appreciate what's coming, regardless of who wins the election given Labour's propaganda tactics.

Maybe it isn't just Labour voters

After Gordon Brown’s appearance at Reuters’ Canary Wharf base on Thursday, I spoke to a City type who also attended a similar event last week with George Osborne, David Cameron and Kenneth Clarke last week. For all the undoubted anxieties in the City about Labour’s (lack of) fiscal plans and all the doubts about Mr Brown’s own agenda, my financial friend was clear about which presentation he found more credible.
“Whatever you think of it, Brown looks like he’s offering a clear message. I can’t say that for the Conservatives,” he said. It was not an unusual view in such company

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100029525/george-osborne-and-the-conservatives-economic-troubles/

Kohoutek

They were offering a clear message about six months ago, e.g. the 'cuts speech' that Osborne made at the Tory Party Conference.

The reason they abandoned their austerity manifesto is obviously a response to Labour's 'no cuts line', when Brown came out with rubbish like 'Labour is the party of investment, the Tories are the party of cuts'. Unfortunately, the Tories obviously think enough marginals might fall for that line, so they distanced themselves for the big cuts agenda.

Congratulations to Labour for dumbing down the deficit reduction proposals, just like they do to everything else.

Pete111

StevieJ wrote: »

Maybe it isn't just Labour voters

After Gordon Brown’s appearance at Reuters’ Canary Wharf base on Thursday, I spoke to a City type who also attended a similar event last week with George Osborne, David Cameron and Kenneth Clarke last week. For all the undoubted anxieties in the City about Labour’s (lack of) fiscal plans and all the doubts about Mr Brown’s own agenda, my financial friend was clear about which presentation he found more credible.
“Whatever you think of it, Brown looks like he’s offering a clear message. I can’t say that for the Conservatives,” he said. It was not an unusual view in such company

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jameskirkup/100029525/george-osborne-and-the-conservatives-economic-troubles/

Ok so the message is clear (investment not cuts etc etc)

But given the size of the deficit it's clearly firmly rooted in la la land. Please tell me that your city mates see this...? Mine do!!

Sir_Humphrey

Since we are quoting Martin Wolf, this is his column from earlier this week. It refers to the Eurozone, but some aspects are relevant to the UK.

Now Germany insists that every country should eliminate its excess fiscal deficit as quickly as possible. But that can only happen if current account balances improve or private balances deteriorate. If it is to be the latter, there needs to be a resurgence in private, presumably debt-financed, spending. If it is to be the former, there are two choices: first, current account balances must deteriorate elsewhere in the eurozone, entailing a move to smaller private surpluses in countries like Germany. Or, second, the overall balance of the eurozone must shift towards surplus – a “beggar my neighbour” policy.

In practice, the most likely outcome of such fiscal retrenchment would be a slump in countries with large external and fiscal deficits. Given the lack of competitiveness of such external deficit countries and the weakness of demand elsewhere in the eurozone, such slumps might become very long-lasting. The question is whether populations would put up with this. If not, political crises will emerge, with inherently uncertain consequences.

Let me put the point starkly: Germany’s structural private sector and current account surpluses make it virtually impossible for its neighbours to eliminate their fiscal deficits, unless the latter are willing to live with lengthy slumps. The problem could be resolved by a eurozone move into external surpluses. I wonder how the eurozone would explain such a policy to its global partners. It might also be resolved by an expansionary monetary policy from the European Central Bank that successfully spurred private spending in the surplus countries and also raised German inflation well above the eurozone average.

StevieJ

Kohoutek wrote: »

They were offering a clear message about six months ago, e.g. the 'cuts speech' that Osborne made at the Tory Party Conference.

The reason they abandoned their austerity manifesto is obviously a response to Labour's 'no cuts line', when Brown came out with rubbish like 'Labour is the party of investment, the Tories are the party of cuts'. Unfortunately, the Tories obviously think enough marginals might fall for that line, so they distanced themselves for the big cuts agenda.
.

You mean the Tories are telling lies :eek:

Kohoutek

StevieJ wrote: »

You mean the Tories are telling lies :eek:

Well, at least they told the truth originally, before they had to lie to counteract Labour's even bigger lie.

Gordon Brown has been lying (or frighteningly deluded) ever since he claimed he abolished boom and bust, or when he said Britain was 'well placed' to recover from the recession.

StevieJ

Kohoutek wrote: »

Well, at least they told the truth originally, before they had to lie to counteract Labour's even bigger lie.

Gordon Brown has been lying (or frighteningly deluded) ever since he claimed he abolished boom and bust, or when he said Britain was 'well placed' to recover from the recession.

More likely someone with some nouse has tapped Georgie Porgie on the shoulder and mentioned 'sure double dip'. The bottom line is not many (including the captains of what ever industry is left) have much faith in Osbourne.