MSE News: British Airways cabin crew to strike this month

PZH

JPS29 wrote: »

Compared to other airlines the BA staff actually have a good deal. The union will bring the demise of this company and then what can it do for it's members, offer to help them with their CV's?

I'm all for fighting for the little man but in this case I honestly feel that this is a case of the union puffing its chesst out and holding BA over a barrell....

Another strike in the pipeline...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8578660.stm

Strange how it is "Unite" again!!! Don't these people know how to negotiate ??

As pointed out - soon, unite will soon be out of members because the very workers they say they represent will be losing their jobs as the companies close down due to losing even more money due to the stupidity of strike action.... Self defeating in these hard economic times.
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bagand96

myflyguy, I wont get drawn into a debate about why you are striking and whether I agree with it, however, your Union are not doing ANY favours in their press releases, I will quote:

Unite_Press_Release wrote:

By lunchtime today, 85 BA planes were parked at Heathrow - consuming the maximum parking space allowed for BA aircraft;
20 more planes had been moved to Cardiff to be parked, and a further 20 flown to Shannon, in western Ireland, to sit out the strike

That is a lie. There are not 20 BA planes at Cardiff. The only planes at Cardiff this weekend are the ones at BA Maintenance Cardiff which are there on maintenance anwyay.

Blatant lies in press releases make your Union look rediculous and like they are clutching at straws. I wonder if any planes made it to Shannon, I think I can guess....

ziggyman99

I posted this in another thread.....

ziggyman99 wrote: »

I worked for BA for 13 years and saw every department squeezed on costs and staffing whilst the cabin crew were left untouched because of the management fears of tackling their powerful unions. BA concentrated on premium traffic to improve the revenue per seat mile rather than lowering crew costs. I considered that a seriously flawed move, just waiting for a serious recession to spoil BA's day.
I travelled as part of my job function and spent many hours (until I got bored of the whining) talking to crew in crew hotel bars, on the planes and even in crew room parties. All they seemed to do was moan about how hard done by they were. I know how much they earned, I got some of the same perks as they did, and believe me when I say that generally they got very good expenses. Just sit outside the crew car park at heathrow and see what cars the BA cabin crew drive. There will be more than a fair share of BMW's, Porsches etc.
I took voluntary severance after the 3rd offering because I could see the writing on the wall. Apart from my environmental concerns about airlines and their long term viability, I saw a crew/management clash as inevitable.

Just to add, I got out and started my own business during the worst recession on record. I'm doing OK. There is life after BA.

No_axe_to_grind

malkie76 wrote: »

If it's that bad a deal, why did you sign up for the job in the first place ?

For reference, I work for a company which made £10billion net profit last year, yet they are freezing salaries and making heavy redundancies to remain as profitable in the short term while the economy recovers.

My dear fellow, Malkie, why do you boast about being so supine? It may be that you have no backbone to stand up for your rights and be trampled down by your own employer, but is there any value in criticising others who are less invertebrate than your goodself? You almost try and make being servile into a virtue, yet I fail to see anything to respect or admire in such a defeatist, vichyesque, stance. I am so glad Churchill and Wellington came before, and not after, you, as such talk would have not served as any sort of morale boost in their times of crisis.

Perhaps to answer your first question, British Airways cabin staff did not sign up for what is on offer now. This is why they have chosen to strike.

spurs_nut wrote: »

I would say that unite and the rest of you have brought it all on yourselves.
The reason no one cares is people, like myself are struggling with the economy like everybody else.
That's why you have no sympathy. :mad:

Mr Spurs Nut, old chap, you perhaps need to seek professional help with your outbursts of uncontrollable anger and aggression. Is there a deepdown sadness in your life? I saw another post of yours today,later presumably withdrawn or removed, where you accused strikers of being communist insects. I would remind you that Communist regimes hated strikes and banned unions. Are you mature enough to remember the old Soviet Union? Before you use such terminology, remember that your anti union and anti strike stance makes you an awkward bedfollow to such regimes.

Mr_Lahey wrote: »

My question for those on strike remains unanswered:

If you are unhappy with your current employer, rather than effect millions of innocent people, why not seek employment elsewhere?

My dear Mr Lahey, perhaps a perusal of labour laws across the civilised world might serve as some education to your goodself. There is a breathtaking misunderstanding, some would say ignorance, on your part on how disputes are conducted in free countries. I do not know where you come from, but is it from an authoritarian land where strikers are summarily dismissed or is this the kind of Britain you want? The sheer irony is that you use the freedom of fora such as this to assert your opinions, yet you show such antipathy towards the right or freedom to strike. In other words you have the right to stay and disagree, but if BA workers should have the timerity to do the same you cannot stomach it. If this is not hypocrisy it is at least double standards.

Perhaps some reading or self education on matters industrial would be useful in your case. It might help you to tear off those blinkers from which, deep down, I suspect you might love to be unencumbered.

malkie76

Lots of huff and puff in your post there, but you fail to answer the question put to you by Mr Lahey ? Namely, if things are that bad why not seek employment elsewhere ?

The high court agrees there is nothing unreasonable about the changes being put to cabin crew to return the company to be profitable again.

It may be that you have no backbone to stand up for your rights and be trampled down by your own employer

I don't have a 'right' to get a pay rise every year, neither do a have a 'right' to permanent employment under any circumstances. What 'right' do you think my employer is breaking ?

If I'm unhappy I'm entitled to seek employment elsewhere, but the truth of the matter is that there aren't a wealth of jobs anywhere at the moment so I'm content to have a job which pays the bills.

Perhaps to answer your first question, British Airways cabin staff did not sign up for what is on offer now

You aren't addressing the point to which my question was asked.

May I ask if you approve of the strikers who were sporting Hitler T-shirts on Monday ? Do you think that brings sympathy and support for their cause ?

What do you think comes next for the union and strike supporters ? A massive back down from BA ?

dmg24

I am interested to observe that will-in-estoril continues to 'Thank' those in support of BA, but has declined to comment since repeatedly telling malkie76 he was wrong with regards to the prospect of a strike, when he was in fact, correct! I also find it rather bemusing that he seems to appear online shortly after newbie posters who are in support of BA!

malkie76

It's a mere coincidence I'm sure!

I'm off to PEK tomorrow on BA. Already checked in online, BYOBP'd (I do like how it prints 'fast track' in the top right corner) but haven't packed yet.

Shall report from Galleries tomorrow before departing on holidays!

No_axe_to_grind

Malkie, old bean, I shall try and address your points as well as I am able.

I really do not subscribe to the Dickensian attitude of leaving a job if one is unhappy with the employer. There are other, dare I say, less drastic options open to employees, rights given and rights won. One such right is the right to strike. This, you would surely concede, is better for BA staff than resigning. If they resign they have nothing; if they stay and use their other rights they still have their job and the opportunity to fight to not have terms and conditions imposed. I am sure you would agree, this unequivocally answers the question, even if the answer is not the one your goodself or Mr Lahey would like to read.

In terms of rights I was merely making the point that you brag about your servility to your employer. After all, you did make your own employment situation very public, so that there will be inferences made about your willingness or otherwise to stand up to your own employer, whilst at the same time criticising others.

I would condemn any act of provocation. I would not support anybody wearing Adolph Hitler shirts, just as I would not support the grandstanding of the BA Chief Executive, which is also unhelpful.

The next step will be further strikes at the weekend. Beyond that, I do not know. By the same token I am sure you do not either.

Edit: I speak for myself, as I have done for my 70+ years on this earth. I am beholden to nobody else, nor have I posted on this forum before tonight.

malkie76

Not actually answering the questions put to you........now, where do I remember that posting attitude from ???????

If they resign they have nothing; if they stay and use their other rights they still have their job and the opportunity to fight to not have terms and conditions imposed.

Where did I say resign and have nothing ? I said seek employment elsewhere. In the current climate I wouldn't advocate leaving one job with having another to walk into. Why not do that ?

BA needs to make significant cuts to ensure it's long term future - cuts are everywhere to be seen across the board and cabin crew costs need to be reduced. I can't see how anyone can justify demanding pay rises and maintained headcount when their company is so badly in the red. (apart from the banks I guess!!)

There's no 'right' to annual pay rises. If your company is massively in profit then I'd argue employees should be entitled to their share, and conversely when a company is in the red the staff need to compensate.

Don't like the new T&C then move on - the high court has no issue, so neither should the staff. Don't like that, then get another job.

just as I would not support the grandstanding of the BA Chief Executive

He's making difficult decisions in a difficult climate. People need to wake up to the current global financial situation and be realistic about their current opportunities. The press/media seem pretty overall to be supportive of WW.

What becomes comedy is the press releases and sound bites from the union which have no grounding in reality - it doesn't help their case. Surely those following the union must be concerned at the (proven inaccurate) comments that they make about the success of the strike.

Rather than ask "what next" ? I'll rephrase and ask; what would you expect the outcome of any further action be ? Do you realistically expect that anyone will turn up for the next planned strike ?

No_axe_to_grind

I felt that I had answered the question fully. By seeking employment elsewhere I (perhaps wrongly) understood that implied leaving one's current position. I reject this 'take it or leave it' attitude, as I believe that the striking BA workers are being scapegoated for problems, particularly financial ones, which were not of their own making, but were created by a succession of poor management decisions. The illegal fuel charge attempted price fixing cost BA several hundreds of millions of pounds in fines. The poor planning of the Terminal 5 opening also cost the company dearly. Both these episodes were on the current CEO's watch, yet there has been little mention of this in the press. To read some of the nonsense posted, one would be forgiven for thinking that the trades union was the culprit!

I have no way of knowing how the dispute will end. I suspect that both sides will need to give a little. I also imagine that pressure will be brought to bear on the BA board to settle, as apart from the losses incurred by BA itself, the City and capital as a whole are being hit.

As regards soundbites, they are just snippets chosen by the press and media, most of which is hostile towards unions anyway. You say 'proven inaccurate' but offer no such proof. In terms of the strike being successful or not I would say that at Heathrow last Sunday most flights were cancelled and the cargo area adjacent to Hatton Cross was a huge parking area for dozens and dozens of BA aircraft, something I saw with my own eyes, and something I have not seen before.

I do expect participation in the strike to continue: strikers have already lost their rebate travel, and in that sense, have nothing further to lose, other than their salaries for the days on strike.