"Damaged" passport - define "Damaged"

jammin_2

sooz wrote: »

That used to be the case - particularly when coming into the country by ferry. However, I was very shocked (but in a good way ) when we came back by boat and were on the UK side last week that not only were all our passports scanned, I was made to remove my sunglasses, & the kids were asked their names (as they still have baby photos). Each car with 4 or 5 occupants took about 7 minutes. Quite different to my previous experiences when usually waving 4 unopened British passports was quite enough.

Customs and immigration matters are quite different. I'm going to presume that your recent trip was from Ireland to the UK. From an immigration perspective, British and Irish citizens do not need to carry a passport when travelling among the Common Travel Area. If your passports were inspected in great detail and scanned, it may have been for the purpose of training or otherwise. What if you weren't carrying your passports?

BernadetteN

jammin wrote: »

EU citizens don't even need a passport to enter the UK. British citizens do (unless they're entering from Ireland), but a British passport is usually not scanned, and is likely to be glanced at by an immigration officer, but nothing more.

Please do not write such wrong information. EVERYONE HAS ALWAYS NEEDED A PASSPORT OR OTHER RECOGNISED TRAVEL DOCUMENT TO ENTER THE UK, the only exception being British and Irish nationals travelling in the Common Travel area (UK, Ireland and islands). Anyone without an acceptable travel document has ALWAYS been required to explain the absence of travel document and questioned until satisfied that they are EU national and have the right of freedom of movement.

As I will repeat, since the indroduction of scanners (and second generation of scanners are now used), around 99% of passports / travel documents are now scanned into the UK - I'm not listing exceptional circumstances so people don't take advantage. If you arrive anywhere from outside the common travel area and find immigration officers not scanning, ask them why because they are there to be used. Even cruise liner passengers get checked in the days before they arrive so they do not need to be checked on arrival, unless there are problems.

So Jammin, I really don't know where your information is coming from. Believe me, my information is highly accurate.

PS go on, be an EU national now and try and travel through a juxtaposed UK control (major ferry/tunnel ports such as Calais and Coquelles and Eurostar terminals) without a travel document, particularly in Brussels or Paris. You will have an angry look on your face because YOU ARE 99% CERTAIN TO BE REFUSED TRAVEL. Expect such toughness to spread soon to other places. If travelling by plane to the UK, you will have 99% certainty of being refused travel by the airline if you are an EU national without a travel document so won't even get the chance to be checked by any UK immigration staff when travelling without a travel document.

BernadetteN

sooz wrote: »

That used to be the case - particularly when coming into the country by ferry. However, I was very shocked (but in a good way ) when we came back by boat and were on the UK side last week that not only were all our passports scanned, I was made to remove my sunglasses, & the kids were asked their names (as they still have baby photos). Each car with 4 or 5 occupants took about 7 minutes. Quite different to my previous experiences when usually waving 4 unopened British passports was quite enough.

Yes this is correct. Before 9/11, there was a policy at the busy ferry ports of "light touch" which immigration officers were ordered to implement. Passports were counted against occupants of cars. Post 9/11, much has changed. Since then, the national immigration database has been introduced and scanners are now used. The new generation of scanners unfortunately take around 5 seconds to recognise the smart chips and also you have to remove the covers from passports so it takes alot longer to process each passenger, no matter waht their nationality. Officers are now trained to recognise child trafficking so any child with a different name to the adults is likely to entail extra questions and every child should be checked against each travel document.

jammin_2

BernadetteN wrote: »

Please do not write such wrong information. EVERYONE HAS ALWAYS NEEDED A PASSPORT OR OTHER RECOGNISED TRAVEL DOCUMENT TO ENTER THE UK, the only exception being British and Irish nationals travelling in the Common Travel area (UK, Ireland and islands). Anyone without an acceptable travel document has ALWAYS been required to explain the absence of travel document and questioned until satisfied that they are EU national and have the right of freedom of movement.

As I will repeat, since the indroduction of scanners (and second generation of scanners are now used), around 99% of passports / travel documents are now scanned into the UK - I'm not listing exceptional circumstances so people don't take advantage. If you arrive anywhere from outside the common travel area and find immigration officers not scanning, ask them why because they are there to be used. Even cruise liner passengers get checked in the days before they arrive so they do not need to be checked on arrival, unless there are problems.

So Jammin, I really don't know where your information is coming from. Believe me, my information is highly accurate.

My goodness, am I being shouted at?

BernadetteN, kindly re-read my post, and tell me precisely which part(s) is/are inaccurate?

Considering you have put Brussels as your location (the "heart" of Europe), I'm astonished that you seem unaware that an EU citizen can move among the Member States using their National ID card (if applicable), in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC. In which case, there would be no need for such person to carry a passport.

Regarding the scanning of UK passports, upon arrival in the UK from outside the Common Travel Area, you may be correct that scanning equipment is in place on most ports of entry. However, I speak from recent, personal experience (arriving from Asia and European countries in the past 6 months), when I say that UK passports were not scanned but merely glanced at. This is the difference between what should happen in theory, and what happens in practice.

Hope that's cleared that up.

BernadetteN

jammin wrote: »

My goodness, am I being shouted at?

BernadetteN, kindly re-read my post, and tell me precisely which part(s) is/are inaccurate?

Considering you have put Brussels as your location (the "heart" of Europe), I'm astonished that you seem unaware that an EU citizen can move among the Member States using their National ID card (if applicable), in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC. In which case, there would be no need for such person to carry a passport.

You seem to have misinterpreted the European directive regarding the freedom of movement in the EU. The directive DID NOT REMOVE THE NEED TO PROVE YOUR NATIONALITY and therefore in order to travel freely in the EU, you need to have a valid passport or recognised travel document. In our case, if we want to travel to the UK, we have to show our British passports. If we want to travel to another Schengen state, we have to carry with us our valid Belgian residents cards as a minimum acceptable travel document (even that is a grey area and national documents are still a better idea to carry with you).

The PAF in Paris or Calais and the BP in Brussels will gladly confirm if you wish to travel in and out of their bits of Schengen to the UK that you need to show your EU national document to travel, or any other acceptable travel document in order to travel.

jammin_2

BernadetteN wrote: »

You seem to have misinterpreted the European directive regarding the freedom of movement in the EU.

Oh dear..

To quote Article 5(1) of Directive 2004/38/EC:

Member States shall grant Union citizens leave to enter their territory with a valid identity card or passport

The UK does not yet have a National ID card system in place. As such, British citizens have no alternative but to carry their passports when travelling among the Member States. If, on the other hand, you were lucky enough to be a citizen of an EU Member State which does have a National ID card system in place, such as Belgium, for example, you would be able to move among the Member States carrying your Belgium National ID card alone - no passport.

BernadetteN wrote: »

The directive DID NOT REMOVE THE NEED TO PROVE YOUR NATIONALITY

Of course it didn't. Please, your all-caps are tiresome.

BernadetteN wrote: »

and therefore in order to travel freely in the EU, you need to have a valid passport or reconised travel document*.

*National ID card included, if your EU country of citizenship issues them.

BernadetteN wrote: »

In our case, if we want to travel to the UK, we have to show our British passport.

Assuming you are British citizens only, yes.

BernadetteN wrote: »

If we want to travel to another Schengen state, we have to carry with us our valid Belgian residents cards as a minimum acceptable travel document (even that is a grey area and national documents are still a better idea to carry with you).

Again, I agree with this. While travel within the Schengen area is not *usually* subject to any border control, Directive 2004/38/EC states that a passport or National ID card is required to be carried by EU citizens who travel among the Member States at all times (even within Schengen). Again, in practice, border controls between Member States within Schengen are almost never present.

BernadetteN wrote: »

The PAF in Paris or Calais and the BP in Brussels will gladly confirm if you wish to travel in and out of their bits of Schengen to the UK that you need to show your EU national document to travel, or any other acceptable travel document in order to travel.

And they would be correct.

BernadetteN

Not all EU countries have national ID cards, therefore for EU nationals whose countries do not have national ID cards require national passports or other travel documents. So EU nationals can only travel on their ID cards if their countries issue them. It's not just the UK and Ireland in the EU that do not yet have a national ID card system.

DCFC79

Id get it replaced to be on the safe side

jammin_2

BernadetteN wrote: »

Not all EU countries have national ID cards, therefore for EU nationals whose countries do not have national ID cards require national passports or other travel documents. So EU nationals can only travel on their ID cards if their countries issue them.

Finally, you get it. :beer:

BernadetteN wrote: »

It's not just the UK and Ireland in the EU that do not yet have a national ID card system.

Correct.

No hard feelings, but an apology wouldn't go a miss for your little outburst: :rolleyes:

pboae

Given that this thread has been dragged up from 2006 I should imagine the OP has made their decision one way or another by now.