Big electrical problems!!

webrits

We seem to have some fairly big electrical problem in our house.
The house is around 150 years old but was rewired in the past and has a fairly new consumer unit.
I took a quad switch off the wall and wanted to split this into 2 singles and one double switch (all in nearby locations- 1 switch where the current quad is, one the other side of the wall & 1 the other side of a door frame).
Anyway it seems only one red wire is live and was then jumpered to the other switch terminals to feed the other lights !!!
Is this in itself dangerous??
Not only this, I checked the wires with a mains tester (screwdriver-thing) 2 of the earths are showing up as live!! These 2 earths along with 3rd (yup only 3 earth for 4 lights!) were connected to the earth terminal of the mounting box.

So there it is....I'm far from an expert on electrics but something here is messed up. Any idea whats happening here??

Thanks.

mclaren_2

ok - in a single switch, there should be 2 wires - they are BOTH live wires. there is no neutral wires in a light switch (despite what some "books" say). The earth wire is dead - its just connected to the plate behind the switch. this is just for saftey - so if these are live, they are not as its the metal you are touching and not the electic.

On a single switch, it will have 1 going in the top and one in the bottom, this is the on wire and off wire - thats all.

You have put 2 singles in - have these both been earthed? (earth is yellow)

Problem with some old wire systems, is that both wires are black (both live which today means netural but are live) or red and black, which is also confusing cos people think one is neutral.

in a 2 way switch, you will have 2 wires in the bottom and one in the top and in a 3 way you will have 3 in the bottom and one in the top.

So, overall, you should have the following.....

single: 1 in top, one in bottom
double: 1 in top, two in bottom.

I will say though - that if you are unsure, in the SLIGHTEST, to call in an electicion. Playing with the electic units in houses, is both dangerous, and stupid. Its easy to change a switch and to re route wires, but with waht you have put, i suspect you need another couple of cables twined from the boxes.

do not take a risk - its not worth it. you will be charged money, but whats better, pay money to be told its ok or take a chance with your life.

way your setting should be is to have the double switch as the main one and have the singles as secondry switches. Ideal way would be to have 2 new wires in each but you can "jump" them over from the other boxes. if you have done this, then yes, its safe - as its 5 amps.

its like a 5 amp fuse in a plug

if something did go wrong, then if you have a modern tripswitch box, then the trip would go and that would be it BUT as i said, if in doubt, call in the pros;

weekendwarrior

Wait until the sparks read this post!

ok - in a single switch, there should be 2 wires - they are BOTH live wires. there is no neutral wires in a light switch (despite what some "books" say). The earth wire is dead - its just connected to the plate behind the switch. this is just for saftey - so if these are live, they are not as its the metal you are touching and not the electic.

They are not both live wires, one is live the other is the switched live- This becomes live once the switch is switched on!

You might find neutrals in a light switch, it depends on how it is wired up. Often you will find neutral wires linked together in light switches although they are often terminated into a terminal connector.

You have put 2 singles in - have these both been earthed? (earth is yellow)

Earth is not yellow! It is green and yellow, years ago it used to be green, it has never been yellow. You do find yellow wires in two/three way circuits, but it is not the earth wire!!!!!

Anyway it seems only one red wire is live and was then jumpered to the other switch terminals to feed the other lights !!!
Is this in itself dangerous??

This is quite common and is not dangerous, as long as it is done correctly.

Not only this, I checked the wires with a mains tester (screwdriver-thing) 2 of the earths are showing up as live!! These 2 earths along with 3rd (yup only 3 earth for 4 lights!) were connected to the earth terminal of the mounting box.

Never trust a neon screwdriver, they often light up when no voltage is present. The screwdriver is probably lighting up due to induction from other wires nearby!


You can read about lighting circuits Here

webrits

Thanks for the replies.....

If the neon screwdrivers are rubbish, what is the best way to determine if I have any voltage on the earths? Multimeter?

LeckieCJ

I take it mclaren is not an electrician.............!! :eek:

Get someone (who knows what they are doing) to have a look at your wiring.

Ditto weekendwarrior...:rolleyes:

mclaren_2

LeckieCJ wrote:

I take it mclaren is not an electrician.............!! :eek:

nope - end of the day - who would be stupid enough to listen to information on a forum - esp if playing with electics????? thats like asking for medical advice - go to GP, same as electics.... "i smell gas, i have opened the main pipe, there is a really funny smell coming from it, what should i do?".... as i said in my post, if in doubt, call in the pros who can LOOK at the situ as it is.

i know about electics, ive had to (for internal of pc's), but at the end of the day - each house is different - in my switches, both black wires - some houses are red, yellow (and i who said yellow isnt earth is green is wrong because recently, it has been BOTH green and yellow in a stripe, BECAUSE of people like myself who are colourblind!

webrits

mclaren wrote:

nope - end of the day - who would be stupid enough to listen to information on a forum - esp if playing with electics????? thats like asking for medical advice - go to GP, same as electics.... "i smell gas, i have opened the main pipe, there is a really funny smell coming from it, what should i do?".... as i said in my post, if in doubt, call in the pros who can LOOK at the situ as it is.

At the end of the day pal who would be stupid enough to post a reply on a subject they obviously don't know much about??

I probably will call in an expert but in the meantime i've learnt that jumping a live between switches can be OK if done correctly and neon screwdrivers are crap.
Oh and I already knew that earth in striped yellow/green.

mclaren wrote:

i know about electics, ive had to (for internal of pc's), but at the end of the day - each house is different - in my switches, both black wires - some houses are red, yellow (and i who said yellow isnt earth is green is wrong because recently, it has been BOTH green and yellow in a stripe, BECAUSE of people like myself who are colourblind

I don't think you should be playing with with wires if you're colourblind !

mercurystar999

Why would you want to get rid of the 4 gang switch?

mclaren_2

webrits wrote:

At the end of the day pal who would be stupid enough to post a reply on a subject they obviously don't know much about??

I probably will call in an expert

I don't think you should be playing with with wires if you're colourblind !

i wasnt meaning you were stupid, i meant in general?!!! and being colourblind does not mean i cant work with electics.

as i said in my op - you should get professional help - in future, i wont bother posting

webrits

mercurystar999 wrote:

Why would you want to get rid of the 4 gang switch?

It's just a mess basically. The switch is sort of at the corner of the kitchen/stairs/living room door. There is no switch in the living room, and this 4 gang also controls the utility room which is around the corner. Hard to explain really.
When I'm done there will be a switch in the living room, a switch in the current position for the kitchen, and one round the corner for the utility and landing.

I'm having these wallls skimmed tomorrow anyway, so it seemed like the perfect time to fix it.

weekendwarrior

webrits wrote:

Thanks for the replies.....

If the neon screwdrivers are rubbish, what is the best way to determine if I have any voltage on the earths? Multimeter?

Yes a multimeter is best, but remember that you may get a few volts passing through the earth wire caused by induction from other wires!