Need Advice Re-House Deeds..

disneyworldfan

david29dpo wrote: »

If a property is owned in joint names it is normally owned in joint tenants or tenants in common. Joint tenants is the surviving owner get the house, full stop, in cant be left to anyone else. Tenants in common however means if one dies, his estate goes to whoever they please.

I understand a little better thank you.I know that both of their names are on the deeds to the house-but that's all i know-Grandfather is looking for them today.

JamesU wrote: »

Yes. If joint tenants, when one person dies the property automatically goes to the other person by survivorship. If tenants in common, after death the estate does not neccessarily go to "whoever they please," it depends on their instructions in a will and whether or not a will has been made. If there is a will, yes, each person can assign "whoever they please" to be the beneficiary of their part of the property.

JamesU

They have a will,but they are in the middle of ammending it.If one of them passes everything goes to the surviving partner,when they have both died that's when they have listed what goes to who.The house goes to me but it does'nt seem to be as easy as that.That's why grandparents are now worrying that i may not get the house if there is a chance it will have to be sold for whatever reason.This is why were tryiing to find out the best way for me to deffinatey inherit their house without me having to sell it.Hope that makes sense.Thank you

bryanb wrote: »

You could be put on the deeds as a third joint tenant.
If a relative over 60 is living in a property when the owner is taken into care, the Local authority may ignore the value of the property for the purposes of care costs. Note the word "may"

This is what grandparents are considering-it seems like the ideal solution-and would it mean that i have as much right as my grandparents to live in their house?Could i still be made to sell the house when one of them passes or when both have them have passed?.Thank you.

disneyworldfan

G_M wrote: »

You don't have to own the house, or be on the deeds, to live in it, provided you have their (or her) permission.

How would we do this-is it a legal document to prove i have permission to live there if somethin was to happen to either or both of them?.Could i ever be asked to leave-not by my one of my grandparents, i mean by official people?.Their house is my original home-as in i lived there,i was raised by them-i moved out when i was 18.Thank you.

JamesU

bryanb wrote: »

You could be put on the deeds as a third joint tenant.
If a relative over 60 is living in a property when the owner is taken into care, the Local authority may ignore the value of the property for the purposes of care costs. Note the word "may"

Changing the deeds at this point by adding a third tenant really could be construed as a blatant attempt to avoid a home sale for care fees, leading to deprivation of assets issues and easily argued. It is also not IHT tax efficient at all unless the grandparents start paying a genuine market rent for that 1/3 of the property, irrespective of any seven year survivorship, due to interest in possession/poat issues.

There are technical solutions to this dilemma to protect the property and other legacies. But family needs to be clear on priorities first i.e. personal welfare and needs vs inheritance legacies.

Disneyworldfan, have you considered investigating the affordability of care cost insurance for the grandparents with an IFA? This would provide security for the grandparents and there would be no need to sell the home.

JamesU


I am not a legal or financial expert

disneyworldfan

JamesU wrote: »

Changing the deeds at this point by adding a third tenant really could be construed as a blatant attempt to avoid a home sale for care fees, leading to deprivation of assets issues and easily argued.

Disneyworldfan, have you considered investigating the affordability of care cost insurance for the grandparents with an IFA? This would provide security for the grandparents and there would be no need to sell the home.

JamesU


I am not a legal or financial expert

As to having my name added to the deeds-this is why i think,people could assume that we are trying to avoid care fee's-when honestly this is not the case.I just want to live in my grandparents house once they have passed,they want me to have the house and because it is the house i grew up in.I am in no position and 99% honestly will never be, to own my own home etc...this is just something they want to gve back to me after all i have done and am doing for them now.They want me and my family to have a safe and secure roof over our heads-that's all.

James-what is an IFA,that you are mentioning?(I am hoping that neither of my grandparents need to go into a care home-BUT if my grandfather passes first then there is a hgh chance this will sadly have to happen to my gran).

Thanks again.

JamesU

disneyworldfan wrote: »

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James-what is an IFA,that you are mentioning?(I am hoping that neither of my grandparents need to go into a care home-BUT if my grandfather passes first then there is a hgh chance this will sadly have to happen to my gran).

Thanks again.

Sorry, an IFA is an independent financial advisor.

Yes I understand this, but if there was a time when you were unable to cope with their needs, and one of them had to go into care, at least you would have insurance cover for this. Then the grandparents have peace of mind regarding care and knowing the house can be passed on to you if they are not there, and you do not have to worry about local authorities fighting for the sale of the family home. It is just a question of whether or not care insurance is a sensible option, practical and/or affordable within you family circumstances, and seeing an IFA may help the family decide if there are any options that should be considered and suitable.

JamesU

G_M

Hi,
You say that "people could assume that we are trying to avoid care fee's-when honestly this is not the case."

However you also say: "they don't want there house to be sold-they want me and my family to live in there house."

And you say: "They do have savings for care homes-whether it's enough that's another story."

These statements are all linked. The truth is, there may NOT be enough savings to pay for your gran's carehome. Therefore the house may need to be used to help pay. But this is what you are trying to avoid because you do not want 'them' to take the house away.

If the savings run out there are 2 possibilities:
1) the house's value is somehow released (by selling or equity release etc) to pay for gran or
2) the state (local authority) pays for gran - but they will look at the house (EVEN if it has be 'transferred' to you) and say that must be sold first. That is because lots of people try to protect their homes by transferring ownership so that local authorites fund the now destitute elderly person. Local authorities are wise to this technique.

As to my statement that "You don't have to own the house, or be on the deeds, to live in it, provided you have their (or her) permission." I was not recommending this as a solution to your particular situation, I was simply explaining the law relating to occupation. Anyone can occupy a building if permission is granted. It is usually best to have a writen agreement, but verbal permission is fine too (legally). Better though to define whether rent is to be paid or not. If not, who pays the bills? the upkeep? the repairs? Best to have this written down.

But none of this alters the fact that your grandparents and you NEED INDEPENDANT FINANCIAL, AND LEGAL, ADVICE.

notisis

You may wish to ask your grandparents' solicitor who is advising on wills whether they are experienced in elderly client law and possibly a member of STEP - this area of law will look holistically at what the client is hoping to achieve and advise accordingly. It may well be that in order to preserve the house for you, a policy could be taken out to cover any shortfall for care home fees if there are insufficient savings, but there may be other avenues to explore depending on what other assets your grandparents have (if any). Your grandparents need complete advice from a solicitor well versed in the type of scenario your grandparents are looking at and not all solicitors are able to provide this type of advice unfortunately as it is not their specialist area. Good luck.

G_M

You could also look at Age Concern's fact sheets, like this on paying for residential care.

Help the Aged also have advice on their website including help writing wills.

bryanb

Reading this thread again, it seems that the OP is in fact trying to avoid care home fees. If not then what is the problem?

disneyworldfan

notisis wrote: »

You may wish to ask your grandparents' solicitor who is advising on wills whether they are experienced in elderly client law and possibly a member of STEP - this area of law will look holistically at what the client is hoping to achieve and advise accordingly. It may well be that in order to preserve the house for you, a policy could be taken out to cover any shortfall for care home fees if there are insufficient savings, but there may be other avenues to explore depending on what other assets your grandparents have (if any). Your grandparents need complete advice from a solicitor well versed in the type of scenario your grandparents are looking at and not all solicitors are able to provide this type of advice unfortunately as it is not their specialist area. Good luck.

Thank you.

G_M wrote: »

You could also look at Age Concern's fact sheets, like this on paying for residential care.

Help the Aged also have advice on their website including help writing wills.

Thank you.

bryanb wrote: »

Reading this thread again, it seems that the OP is in fact trying to avoid care home fees. If not then what is the problem?

You really do have the wrong end of the stick,maybe it's the way i am wording myself-i don't know but you really are wrong,i have never 'cheated' anyone or tried to get around things,and i find your post upsetting.



Thank you to everyone who answered my question the best that you can-i am grateful.I have received a personal message from someone who has helped me,so will now leave this as my last post,as i find it quite hurtful what people seem to be thinking.Thanks again.