Disabled Student's Allowance -- worth applying for mental health?

bitsandpieces

The_One_Who wrote: »

Why would someone need a computer in a lecture? There are note-takers, dictaphones, etc. all available. I'm sure in some cases a laptop can be justified, but certainly not in all, or even most, cases.

Some people can't write adequately by hand, among other possible reasons. Lectures could be video-recorded (dictaphones don't get visuals - which are important). That will mean disabled students would need to attend the lecture then take notes from the recording - using twice as much of their time and therefore not putting them on a level playing field with other students - and to do a half-decent job of recording lectures like this isn't a cheap option anyway (esp when you factor in the cost of staff time to make this work well).

Some students need note-takers. For those who can use a laptop, though, this is often a much better solution: students are encouraged to learn to take notes effectively and taking notes themselves lets students tailor them to their own style and often helps them absorb material. Over the course of even 1 year (let alone 3+) a laptop will normally be much cheaper than paying competent note-takers for their time. Paying much more to impose a worse solution on disabled students isn't a particularly good idea.

I absolutely agree that not every disabled students needs a laptop. This is uncontroversial - not every disabled student will either request or be recommended one anyway.

The_One_Who

I know that in some cases a laptop can be justified, and that's fine. It does need to be properly justified though. In a lot of cases a laptop simply isn't practical, mathematical, science and engineering courses come to mind.

I stand by my opinion that if laptops/computers weren't provided then most students would get their own. This should be no different for disabled students.

bitsandpieces

Of course if laptops weren't provided for disabled students who need laptops due to their disability, many would buy their own - if that was the only way to get to uni. Others wouldn't go to uni, would drop out, or would perform less well than they should due to not having access to the equipment they need. I don't see how this is an argument for not providing disabled students with laptops - any more than the fact that where wheelchair provision is awful/non-existent wheelchair users often buy their own chairs is an argument for not providing free wheelchairs.

I'm not sure why laptops are impractical for subjects like maths and the sciences? Many people doing the subjects prefer to work by hand, but for those who can't there is software which can be used for a lot of tasks. Of course, where you need particularly powerful computers other arrangements will need to be put in place - not sure how often this is the case for many students, though?

Of course government money shouldn't be spent without good justification. This should be assessed by a trained, competent person, though - general complaints about disabled students getting laptops aren't especially helpful. For what it's worth, I suspect a bigger issue than the provision of laptops (which, if good value machines were purchased, wouldn't be that much dearer than desktops and would be cheap compared to specialised software) is that DSA equipment is sometimes bought at shockingly bad prices: expensive specialised suppliers are often used even for standard office equipment which does not require specialist set-up. I've seen quotes for DSA equipment where it took me 5 mins to cut 1/3 off the price - and this was buying the same or better equipment from mainstream suppliers like Amazon, not buying off the back of a lorry!

The_One_Who

bitsandpieces wrote: »

Of course if laptops weren't provided for disabled students who need laptops due to their disability, many would buy their own - if that was the only way to get to uni. Others wouldn't go to uni, would drop out, or would perform less well than they should due to not having access to the equipment they need. I don't see how this is an argument for not providing disabled students with laptops - any more than the fact that where wheelchair provision is awful/non-existent wheelchair users often buy their own chairs is an argument for not providing free wheelchairs.

The exact same thing could be said for those who are not disabled but cannot afford their own computer. In most cases I see no difference between the disabled and non-disabled person in their needs for a private computer. In the way that not all students can afford to buy their own books and so need to use the library provisions. One student getting, say, a book allowance is giving them an advantage over those who do not. I see them as being pretty similar.

I'm not sure why laptops are impractical for subjects like maths and the sciences? Many people doing the subjects prefer to work by hand, but for those who can't there is software which can be used for a lot of tasks. Of course, where you need particularly powerful computers other arrangements will need to be put in place - not sure how often this is the case for many students, though?

Anything mathematical will require a lot of writing with symbols not quickly accessed on a computer. There is a lot of writing in mathematical subjects, it's just not in the form of essays. In four months of doing a maths course I would say I wrote more than I did in a full-year arts course. Unless you actually cannot write by hand at all a computer for maths isn't the best.

Indie_Kid

The One Who - you can take my equipment and my extra time if you want (don't really need the extra time - note-taker will read for me) if you take my disabilities. Then maybe you'll understand why we get the equipment we do.

As for the books - what about those who can't get into the library for whatever reason?

The_One_Who

sh1305 wrote: »

The One Who - you can take my equipment and my extra time if you want (don't really need the extra time - note-taker will read for me) if you take my disabilities. Then maybe you'll understand why we get the equipment we do.

As for the books - what about those who can't get into the library for whatever reason?

Do you want to take mine? Again, I have no problems with the people who get this stuff. It is the system that I would like to see changed so that equipment is cost-effective, genuinely needed and is used to put people on the same level as other students. That is the same level, not being advantaged either through financial or other means.

There will always be cases when such provisions are justified. If I can't get the library then I either miss out on the book or I pay the fine if it's late. There are days when I cannot get out of bed but I still need to play by the same rules as everyone else.

Indie_Kid

I am in no way advantaged. I am still at a disadvantage - it's rare for me now to be able to read a book. THis means having to scan all books in - this is very time-consuming.

The_One_Who

I have no problems with students getting the provisions, and I don't want them to be removed or anything. I would just like them to properly assessed and justified. You have said yourself that you don't really need the extra time given to you.

I'm sorry, but something being time-consuming doesn't really mean much to me. It's time consuming for anyone to read a book, especially if your reading speed isn't that fast (not through a disability). As long as you get access to the equipment you need (books, scanner, whatever) then that's good. It's time consuming for me to get up to university, even more so for others I know.

Non-disabled students are not all super-human who can read fifty pages a minute and write a thousand words an hour. We are all different, with some being better at certain things than others. We all need to play by the same rules.

bestpud

sh1305 wrote: »

I am in no way advantaged. I am still at a disadvantage - it's rare for me now to be able to read a book. THis means having to scan all books in - this is very time-consuming.

I thanked you by mistake as I can kind of see both sides!

It is very difficult to judge when people are on a level playing field so it is obvious there will be some who are given more than they actually need.

There will be many more who have struggled through the education system through no fault of their own and they should be able to reach their full potential when in HE.

I can see why 'free' laptops bring out the green eyed monster in some but they need to look beyond that imo. The grass is rarely greener on the other side...

Indie_Kid

The_One_Who wrote: »

I have no problems with students getting the provisions, and I don't want them to be removed or anything. I would just like them to properly assessed and justified. You have said yourself that you don't really need the extra time given to you.

Everything has to be justified. An assessor can't just give a student what they ask for.

I sometimes need the extra time and sometimes don't. It's better for it to be given to me (so it's there - I can use it if I need to) than not having it at all and struggle.

I'm sorry, but something being time-consuming doesn't really mean much to me. It's time consuming for anyone to read a book, especially if your reading speed isn't that fast (not through a disability). As long as you get access to the equipment you need (books, scanner, whatever) then that's good. It's time consuming for me to get up to university, even more so for others I know.

Non-disabled students are not all super-human who can read fifty pages a minute and write a thousand words an hour. We are all different, with some being better at certain things than others. We all need to play by the same rules.

How many non-disabled students have a reading age of a 15 year old? I do. It takes me much longer and more effort to read a book than what it does a non-disabled student.