Will I need brake pads & discs?

gilbert_and_sullivan

Microstar wrote: »

This is incorrect information.
Parts used do not need to be 'genuine BMW', under EU Block Exemption rules they have to be 'matching quality'. Pretty much all the brake parts you buy in the UK, from legitimate trade sources, will meet this requirement. I recommend OE (Pagid, ATE are fine).

'Service history' and brake replacement are two different things.
BMW are certainly not generous on Goodwill. I know that for a fact (once upon a time I was a Service Manager for a BMW dealership - until Mr Finn took us over..).

Thats very interesting as a chap on a BMW forum i'm a member of has just had his warranty voided due to there being a good quality aftermarket oil filter in his engine, would you be able to back him up should he wish to take this further with a legal challenge?

Don't you think BMW were being reasonable with their replacement engine policy for Diesels that injested their inlet manifold swirl flaps then?
Up to 100K miles with a full BMW history and you get a new engine by goodwill...the only other car maker that would offer such treatment i'm aware of is Toyota and their top range stablemate Lexus.

jackieb

We just bought a car with almost 18k on the clock. The brakes were a bit spongy so the garage replaced pads and discs before we got the car.

mark5

The Mini TLC on the R50 was an Oil change at 10,000, Inspection 1 at 25000, Oil Change at 40000 and the first brake fluid change around the 2 year mark.

It didnt change much with the face lift model which the OP drives.

Microstar_2

gilbert_and_sullivan wrote: »

Thats very interesting as a chap on a BMW forum i'm a member of has just had his warranty voided due to there being a good quality aftermarket oil filter in his engine, would you be able to back him up should he wish to take this further with a legal challenge?

Absolutely 100%. What you have described is illegal under EU BER. Below I have copied the text from a leaflet we give to our customers regarding servicing of vehciles still under warranty by non-franchised workshops such as ourselves, it explains how BER affects them:


"This legislation changes the way cars may be serviced and repaired and gives motorists a lot more freedom in their decision as to who should look after their cars. Before BER, it was very difficult to have cars, which were still covered by the manufacturer’s warranty, serviced anywhere except a franchised dealer.
Now motorists can use any garage of their choice to service their cars without invalidatiing the manufacturer’s warranty (subject to certain conditions).
The latest revision of the BER introduces four ‘freedoms’ that are aimed at safeguarding free competition in the entire market for vehicle spare parts, service and repair. They affect the way in which the parts distributor can act in the market.
1. Freedom for a franchised dealer and/or an ‘authorised repairer’ to purchase up to 70% of their purchases of ‘original spare parts’ and ‘matching quality’ spare parts from independent market operators of their choice.
This means: Parts Factors can supply parts of appropriate quality to Dealers and Authorised repairers without the Vehicle Manufacturer/Assembler using dealer/repairer contracts or other means to prevent them.
2. The freedom for parts manufacturers/suppliers to sell their OE-components without restrictions into independent wholesalers or independent repairers.
This means: Parts manufacturers can no longer be forced by their ‘OE’ contract to limit supply of certain parts to the Vehicle Manufacturer/Assembler. The end of the ‘tied parts’ arrangements.
3. The freedom for parts manufacturers/ suppliers to brand their ‘original equipment parts’ with their own logo.
This means: Motorists and garages will be able to identify the manufacturers of a component when it is removed from a vehicle and source its replacement from any distributor of the part. They will no longer feel that they ‘have’ to go to a dealer for a part.
4. An extension of the obligation on vehicle assemblers to pass on technical information to operators in the independent aftermarket. This information includes, for instance: Access to electronic systems for controlling the vehicle’s operation. Right of “reprogramming” information to correct maladjustment.
This means: Anyone with a legitimate need for technical information:

• parts manufacturers
• remanufacturers
• distributors
• factors
• garages
• technical publishers
• security companies

will have the right of access to it in a usable form and at a reasonable cost (the same cost as charged to anyone within the Vehicle Assemblers network).
The new BER also introduces certain definitions of importance to the independent aftermarket. There is a new definition of ‘original spare parts’ and ‘matching quality parts’ that is based on the quality of the component. This definition can be used:

• Where parts used are of the same quality as the component used for the assembly of a motor vehicle.
• Where the parts used are of the same specifications and production standards as those used by the Vehicle Assemblers.
• Where parts manufacturers/suppliers are able to issue a quality (self-)certification.

The new definition identifies parts in the following way:
‘Spare parts made by any undertaking which can certify at any moment that the parts in question match the quality of the components which are or were used for the assembly of the motor vehicles in question’.
An interesting point is that if the vehicle manufacturer himself offers spare parts of differing quality (e.g. an ‘economy’ line), he cannot prohibit its contractual partners (i.e. dealers and authorised repairers) from buying spare parts of the same quality from the independent market.
The BER also covers service and maintenance during the warranty period and prohibits vehicle manufacturers’ warranties from including conditions requiring that:

• All normal maintenance be provided within the vehicle maker’ network.
• All parts used must be the VA’s “original spare parts”.

The European Commission declared that such clauses in a warranty document would represent ‘an unjustified restriction for the consumer!’
The Automotive Distribution Federation (ADF) have written confirmation from OFT that Independent repairers CAN carry out normal maintenance and repair services during a vehicle’s warranty period without invalidating the VA’s warranty conditions. With two provisos...

• Provided that the service is in accordance with the VA’s servicing schedules and is recorded as such. And…
• Provided: that the parts used are of ‘appropriate quality’ and are recorded as such.

Don’t forget, the new BER helps parts distributors, independent garages and motorists.
If you need more information on this topic, or if you have any evidence of Vehicle Assemblers or their dealers infringing these new rules, then contact the ADF Office."

Microstar_2

gilbert_and_sullivan wrote: »

Don't you think BMW were being reasonable with their replacement engine policy for Diesels that injested their inlet manifold swirl flaps then?
Up to 100K miles with a full BMW history and you get a new engine by goodwill...the only other car maker that would offer such treatment i'm aware of is Toyota and their top range stablemate Lexus.

I have spent over 30 years in the motor trade so I know who is generous and who's not. By and large BMW are fairly tight. The most generous seem to be the Japanese brands, probably because they have fewer claims and so can afford to be. Peugeot and Renault were always amongst the worst.
Most times 'Goodwill' is the wrong term anyway, often the manufacturer actually has a legal obligation to repair/replace under SOGA. Moreover they cannot stipulate dealer service history as a requirement, so long as the car HAS been serviced to the VA recommendation. Even this does not apply if a non-servicable part fails.
The UK consumer is reluctant to take court action against manufacturers and they know it, so bluff their way out. Remember that a warranty is IN ADDITION to your rights under SOGA and not a substitute.

mikey72

The phrase used is


The new BER also defines

“spare parts of matching quality”: The definition provides that this spare part must match the quality of the components which are or were used for the new vehicle,

i.e. it must at least correspond to the original part in terms of its construction, production and functional standards (or it can be of superior quality).

If you or the part manufacturer can prove that, the warranty is ok.
If it's not, or the manufacturer won't face off to BMW, stick to oe parts.

http://www.r2rc.eu/documents/BER_Brochure_final_en.pdf

gilbert_and_sullivan

Microstar wrote: »

Absolutely 100%. What you have described is illegal under EU BER. Below I have copied the text from a leaflet we give to our customers regarding servicing of vehciles still under warranty by non-franchised workshops such as ourselves, it explains how BER affects them:


Thanks for that, how does this legislation apply when a manufacturer offers a warranty which usually has terms and conditions attached...and without reading a BMW warranty i'd assume it specified genuine parts to be used, but may well be ambiguous as these things are oft writ in legalese.

The whole thing seems a minefield, and in the case of the chap whose warranty was nulled it could be said that the dealer has acted unlawfully, would that seem correct?

On the whole would it be prudent to stick to genuine parts to safeguard warranty and possible later goodwill or are things changing?

Don't know if this text will post bold type and if it does i haven't a clue why?

Microstar_2

mikey72 wrote: »

The phrase used is


The new BER also defines

“spare parts of matching quality”: The definition provides that this spare part must match the quality of the components which are or were used for the new vehicle,

i.e. it must at least correspond to the original part in terms of its construction, production and functional standards (or it can be of superior quality).

If you or the part manufacturer can prove that, the warranty is ok.
If it's not, or the manufacturer won't face off to BMW, stick to oe parts.

Not a problem. Many, if not all, of the better suppliers will supply paperwork stating the parts are of matching quality. We only use parts of matching quality and have not had a problem so far when it comes to warranty work. Manufacturers/dealers prey on the ingnorance of consumers and will often try to circumvent BER legislation. One quick phone call to let them know you are aware of BER legislation should be enough to overcome any difficulties you are having with a dealer! Been there and got the T-Shirt.

Microstar_2

gilbert_and_sullivan wrote: »

Microstar wrote: »

Absolutely 100%. What you have described is illegal under EU BER. Below I have copied the text from a leaflet we give to our customers regarding servicing of vehciles still under warranty by non-franchised workshops such as ourselves, it explains how BER affects them:


Thanks for that, how does this legislation apply when a manufacturer offers a warranty which usually has terms and conditions attached...and without reading a BMW warranty i'd assume it specified genuine parts to be used,

BMW are not allowed to specify that OE parts must be used. If they ever did that, or put in writing to a customer, then that would be taken very seriously by the OFT and EU Competition Comission and they would find themselves facing a big fine. Individual dealer may verbal say to consumers that they must use OE parts, but they are just trying it on. If a BMW dealer ever tells you that the car must be serviced using 'genuine' parts or only franchised dealers then get them to put it in writing - I bet they won't!!
BMW make very few of their own parts. Most components are brought in from the big supplies. Filters come mainly from Knecht, Mann and Purolator/Purflux.

mikey72

Microstar wrote: »

Not a problem. Many, if not all, of the better suppliers will supply paperwork stating the parts are of matching quality. We only use parts of matching quality and have not had a problem so far when it comes to warranty work. Manufacturers/dealers prey on the ingnorance of consumers and will often try to circumvent BER legislation. One quick phone call to let them know you are aware of BER legislation should be enough to overcome any difficulties you are having with a dealer! Been there and got the T-Shirt.

That's what I said,
but you said yes to

"a BMW forum i'm a member of has just had his warranty voided due to there being a good quality aftermarket oil filter in his engine, would you be able to back him up should he wish to take this further with a legal challenge?"

How do you know is is as good as the oe, and is certified as such.
The testing and manufacturers certification is key. If it's missing the warranty can legally be voided. Then you can argue over which bits should be covered, and which bits aren't.