Nice people thread 2 - now even nicer

silvercar

SingleSue wrote: »

Eeekk, now I feel stupid!

No uni here, let alone Oxford....if I had, it would have been between the two of you (1988-1991)

carolt wrote: »

No, we just missed each other - I was there 90-93.

LydiaJ wrote: »

I was an undergraduate there between 1987 and 1990. Did we overlap? I wonder if I knew you!

Malcolm. wrote:

No uni here, let alone Oxford....if I had, it would have been between the two of you (1988-1991)

Feeling so old. I was at uni 82-85!

carolt

Malcolm. wrote: »

How many brothers do you have carolt? If a middle child(?), I believe you're meant to be able to get along with most people - just like me! :cool:

I have 3 - being part of a large family of intellectually bolshie men may indeed have shaped my personality...

SingleSue

carolt wrote: »

From stuff you've posted previously, I'm sure you're far brighter than me, certainly Sue - I'm a long way off Mensa...

I worked hard and was very driven - due to family connections, that was my goal from when I was about 5, literally. If I'd come from a family where that was less of an expectation, then I might well not have put the effort into achieving that particular goal and aimed elsewhere - you clearly had, and achieved different goals at that age.

As I think I've said before, my youngest brother was the only one of us to get a first, as an Open Uni candidate in his late 30's/early 40's - he was also the only one of us not to attend Oxford! He was brighter than any of us, but took a while to get round to proving it... in his own time.

IQ means nothing really, it is what you do with it....

I honestly didn't believe I was bright when I was at school, something which my parents in a misguided way, didn't seek to correct (I was the top student with all A's in my end of 3rd year exams - letter was sent home from school telling my parents as much and they, in their wisdom, thought it would put too much pressure on me if they told me - unfortunately, it would have been what I needed for the confidence).

I was also hell bent on going into nursing and had it all planned out when the teacher strikes put the kibosh on it all - a fair few of my O level courses were impacted and had to be converted to CSE ones because of the lack of a teacher available to teach!

So, I made the decision (again the wrong one), to just get out in the big wide world and make some money (and being fiercely independent, no-one could tell me otherwise), something which worked very successfully for a long time. I quickly rose through the ranks in my career to make manager and a high rate tax payer by my twenties and I believed my decision had been vindicated, especially when I looked at those the same age as me who went to university having to start near to the bottom and at a lot less money than me.

After time though and with having children, I started to realise my mistake - I had to keep starting at the bottom again, it was getting harder to get the jobs and questions were starting to be asked about why I didn't continue my education to A levels at least.

This was the time I really started yearning to have that further education and I asked now ex husband over an anniversary dinner, if he would support me if I went "back to school" on a full time basis, the answer was a resounding no. So I started a distance degree in Criminology (not OU), he wouldn't let me study, made fun of me when I tried to study and then finally, my middle son was perm excluded from school, I had a breakdown and then my marriage broke up.

So I had to pull out as there was no spare time to be had to actually study.

In reality, my story is one of missed opportunity and wrong decisions, something I am now attempting to put right.

Davesnave

silvercar wrote: »

Feeling so old. I was at uni 82-85!

If it makes you feel better, I was at College/Uni 1969-73. I had to gain a teaching certificate first, before they would let me convert it into a degree. TBH I never intended to follow through as a teacher, because my reasons for becoming a student were far from noble.

carolt

SingleSue wrote: »

IQ means nothing really, it is what you do with it....

I honestly didn't believe I was bright when I was at school, something which my parents in a misguided way, didn't seek to correct (I was the top student with all A's in my end of 3rd year exams - letter was sent home from school telling my parents as much and they, in their wisdom, thought it would put too much pressure on me if they told me - unfortunately, it would have been what I needed for the confidence).

I was also hell bent on going into nursing and had it all planned out when the teacher strikes put the kibosh on it all - a fair few of my O level courses were impacted and had to be converted to CSE ones because of the lack of a teacher available to teach!

So, I made the decision (again the wrong one), to just get out in the big wide world and make some money (and being fiercely independent, no-one could tell me otherwise), something which worked very successfully for a long time. I quickly rose through the ranks in my career to make manager and a high rate tax payer by my twenties and I believed my decision had been vindicated, especially when I looked at those the same age as me who went to university having to start near to the bottom and at a lot less money than me.

After time though and with having children, I started to realise my mistake - I had to keep starting at the bottom again, it was getting harder to get the jobs and questions were starting to be asked about why I didn't continue my education to A levels at least.

This was the time I really started yearning to have that further education and I asked now ex husband over an anniversary dinner, if he would support me if I went "back to school" on a full time basis, the answer was a resounding no. So I started a distance degree in Criminology (not OU), he wouldn't let me study, made fun of me when I tried to study and then finally, my middle son was perm excluded from school, I had a breakdown and then my marriage broke up.

So I had to pull out as there was no spare time to be had to actually study.

In reality, my story is one of missed opportunity and wrong decisions, something I am now attempting to put right.

Totally agree with your first sentence. I wouldn't say I'm particularly bright, but I did work exceptionally hard to achieve my (educational) goals. And would say that in general, raw IQ is a very small factor in success in work etc - soft skills and personality count for a lot more in all but the most academic professions.

Also agree with your (implicit) points that parental support, teacher support and just plain luck play huge parts too - you obviously suffered there. For kids without the right parental support, in particular, it's really tough.

As a parent, trying to strike the right balance between being a pushy parent and letting your kids develop at their own pace is very difficult. As a teacher, I'm a firm believer that everyone can achieve, given the right aid and encouragement, but with my own kids I have to watch myself that I don't turn high expectations into pressure that's the opposite of constructive.

A balance that I'm sure many parents struggle to achieve, too.


Oh, and good luck with the studies this time round, Sue!

silvercar

Also agree with your (implicit) points that parental support, teacher support and just plain luck play huge parts too - you obviously suffered there. For kids without the right parental support, in particular, it's really tough.

As a parent, trying to strike the right balance between being a pushy parent and letting your kids develop at their own pace is very difficult. As a teacher, I'm a firm believer that everyone can achieve, given the right aid and encouragement, but with my own kids I have to watch myself that I don't turn high expectations into pressure that's the opposite of constructive.

A balance that I'm sure many parents struggle to achieve, too.

So true. If you have the awareness that you can be overbearing, you must be well on the way to getting it right. Better to have a parent that cares too much, than one that doesn't care.

LydiaJ

SingleSue wrote: »

Eeekk, now I feel stupid!

No uni here, let alone Oxford....if I had, it would have been between the two of you (1988-1991)

Sue, if you were stupid you wouldn't be stunning us all with your ability to study on top of all the other things you are coping with.

I come from a ridiculously academic family, with a dad who specialised in my own subject, and went to an excellent selective school with a history of getting loads of people into Oxford, especially for two subjects, one of which was mine.

If you'd had the same kind of support and encouragement, who knows what you might have achieved?

Anyway, academic qualifications may be interesting and useful, but they don't make you a better person, and it's a mistake to value people according to the letters after their name. I think you're amazing, anyway.

Davesnave

I'm afraid I once had to fail an Oxford graduate................:o

No, hang on, I'll re-write that.

One Oxford graduate, who spent a teaching practice with me, was so unsuited to the role of primary school teacher, I could not pass him and sleep easily at night.

However, it was all OK. The college told me he would likely find employment teaching classics in a private school, so they gave him his PGCE anyway. :mad:

fc123

SingleSue wrote: »

Eeekk, now I feel stupid!

No uni here, let alone Oxford....if I had, it would have been between the two of you (1988-1991)

Awww.....don't feel like that..I am Fick too and couldn't wait to get out of school @ 16. No way would I ever in a zillion years get into Oxford or the like. My brain just doesn't have the discipline for one....it hops about.

Society is comprised of all sorts of different skills and abilities.

I have felt inadequate for years as my family is crazily academic.......my dad and his brother 'invented; things, along with others, that changed society but you know what? If Armaggedon came, they would all be sitting around talking and analysing what to do whilst some of us would build shelter and grow things and so on.

You have to have all sorts in this world for it to function...unfortunately, not all are valued in the same way.


My dad dismisses my MIL (on an intellectual level) yet she was a carer......and few people would have done her work for the poor pay that she received.......and it makes me cross...howver, he is seeing the value in her role nowadays.

Malcolm.

Nightmare tenants is on ITV1 London for anyone interested. 7.30 till 8.