Will to stop nursing care scam

merl1955

Have just read article in Sunday Mail that says making a will were partners have left it in trust rather than to eachother so nursing care fees cannot be ascertained e.g. if one half has to go into nursing care the other half doesn't have to sell the house to pay for care. May not prevent this from happening.
This Article says this is not so and we could have difficulty in accessing equity release any one help on this. As we changed our will this year on advice to this plan we are now worried that we have been advised wrongly. Would it be better to revert back to joint names if we can and no trustee will

Mojisola

As I understand it, if the partner who will stay in the house is over 60 then the house is disregarded.

margaretclare

merl1955 wrote: »

Have just read article in Sunday Mail that says making a will were partners have left it in trust rather than to each other so nursing care fees cannot be ascertained e.g. if one half has to go into nursing care the other half doesn't have to sell the house to pay for care. May not prevent this from happening.
This Article says this is not so and we could have difficulty in accessing equity release any one help on this. As we changed our will this year on advice to this plan we are now worried that we have been advised wrongly. Would it be better to revert back to joint names if we can and no trustee will

I've just trawled through the Mail Online site and could find no such article.

I'm therefore not clear, from the above quote, what it is that 'may not prevent this from happening'.

How can 'the other half' sell a house if he/she requires it to live in?

margaretclare

Mojisola wrote: »

As I understand it, if the partner who will stay in the house is over 60 then the house is disregarded.

I believe that to be the case.

grunnie

But can I ask a question? We have a large house and a huge garden. The garden is my husband's pride and joy but if anything happened to him ( eg go in to a home) I would have to move home as I wouldn't be able to look after the garden. So -sell a large house and move into a flat - large difference in price. Does the money then go to pay for husband's care. He is 66 and I am 57. This has been bothering us for a while now. In Scotland if that makes any difference.

monkeyspanner

grunnie wrote: »

But can I ask a question? We have a large house and a huge garden. The garden is my husband's pride and joy but if anything happened to him ( eg go in to a home) I would have to move home as I wouldn't be able to look after the garden. So -sell a large house and move into a flat - large difference in price. Does the money then go to pay for husband's care. He is 66 and I am 57. This has been bothering us for a while now. In Scotland if that makes any difference.

You are quite young to be worrying about this but forewarned is forearmed. My Mum and Dad were in a similar position and Mum had to move after Dad was taken ill, as painful as it may be an earlier move might be less stressful.

A care home would be seen as the last option by social services with every effort made to allow your husband to be cared for at home. However if it was the only option remaining then his assets and income would be assessed to see if the council would assist in funding.

If you remained living in the family home then this would be disregarded from the assessment. In addition assets in your sole name and your income would be disregarded. The council cannot make you disclose your personal income or sole assets. Any joint assets e.g. bank accounts and investments in joint names with your husband would be assessed at 50% of their value. If your husbands sole assets (excluding the house) exceed £22500 then the council will not assist with funding. If under that llimit the council will assist but only up to one of 4 standard funding levels (assessed on care needs) set by the council each year. If the care home fees are higher than the standard funding level then the council will expect a 3rd party to top up the fees but can only ask for this if they are able to find a care home which will accept the standard fee level. Certain benefits e.g. attandance allowance are disregarded if self-funding

The council assistance will be financially assessed and your husband's income will be deducted from the assistance provided except for a weekly allowance of about £22. Savings between £13500 and £22500 are also assessed for a notional tariff income (£1 per week for each £250 of savings) which is also deducted from the council assistance. If you rely for income partially on an occupational pension I believe there are special rules regarding assessment.

If the family home was sold and another property purchased then the net proceeds of the sale would be distributed to the owner/s and this would then become savings which could if larger enough be used for funding care. So if the property was in joint names 50% of the net proceeds could be assessed.

Have a look at this fact sheet for more details of the system in Scotland:
http://www.counselandcare.org.uk/assets/library/documents/52_Care_Home_Fees_paying_them_in_Scotland_2009.pdf

Things to consider:
- Separating joint assets including the ownership status of the property.
- Balancing assets by transfering between husband and wife.
- Selling the property and gifting some of the net proceeds. Gifts when there is probability of a care home being needed can be viewed as a deliberate deprivation of assets and still be assessed.

Hope this helps.

sagalout1954

MargaretClare - it was a letter in the Ask the Experts, Financial part of the MoS. I can't navigate to it on-line so basically it went like this.

Asks if setting up a family trust would help their savings 'disappear' so they can't be taken into account if they have to pay future care bills.

The short answer appears to be that there's no guarantee that the use of trusts to protect family assets will be successful. To be wary of trusts marketed in this way as the law allows LA's to disregard transactions of this kind if it comes to the conclusion you made the arrangement to deprive yourself of assets. Blah blah blah.

I wonder Merl155 whether the type of trust you have set up is similar to ours, in that (put simply) when one of us karks it the assets of the deceased drop into a trust? Not the same thing as was being referred to in the MoS letter/response.

monkeyspanner

I forgot to mention that probably a more financially significant situation is when the second person or surviving spouse enters care and then the property value is assessed and can be used for both or the surviving spouses residential care costs.

merl1955

sagalout54

sounds like ours I think, basically everything left in trust with the trustee being eachother, how is this different from the MoS info?

sagalout1954

merl1955 wrote: »

sagalout54

sounds like ours I think, basically everything left in trust with the trustee being eachother, how is this different from the MoS info?

MoS were referring to trusts set up whilst both parties were still alive, & remaining alive, but one or the other (or both) then needing care with the accompanying bills. ie sticking property/dosh into a family trust hence 'depriving yourself of assets', the trust being active whilst hubby & wife are still alive.

Our trust only kicks in when one of us dies ie my half ownership of the house (which has been split - tenants in common) and my own savings etc, THEN drop into the trust for my two sons, with them and hubby as trustees. It was set up pre Gordon Browns changes to inheritance tax rules, it doesn't deprive either of us of assets while we are still alive and isn't intended to do so. Our trusts do not help us avoid the possibility of care home fees.