Unenforceability & Template Letters III

never-in-doubt

carol01 wrote: »

i stopped paying them as they told me they were not going to collect on the account sooooo my next question is........
can i cca them?:D
yes n-i-d your not getting off lightly!!!
can i send a request a cca?
or by challenging the default has this addmitted to them that i acknowledge the debt?
thanks carol head basher 01

Hiya

Regardless of admittal, it doesn't mean you cannot CCA them - so yea, get CCA Request sent off asap and lets see how good they are at keeping paper records shall we? Being they are so quick to default you (unlawfully I hasten to add!)

Unlike Statute Barred, you could use the card today and CCA them tomorrow, you don't dispute you own the account, what you dispute is that the lender issued a compliant agreement and that is what you want to see - the fact you used the account is irrelevant - see my template that I typed up for someone earlier for more on this - i.e. here: #3072

They asked 5 questions, like "do you deny this and do you deny that" - who gives a hoot, it is irrelevant! lol

carol01

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya

Regardless of admittal, it doesn't mean you cannot CCA them - so yea, get CCA Request sent off asap and lets see how good they are at keeping paper records shall we? Being they are so quick to default you (unlawfully I hasten to add!)

thanks was hoping you would say that printing as we speak
have a good day n-i-d :T

maz1964

hiya all

for those of you that are really worried please dont panic, know its hard, been there myself about a couple of years ago, sick to the pit of my stomach, but like niddy is saying pls all calm down, nothing can happen its the weekend,,,,

but i can say above from experience and thats all, yes ive had a court claim but they tried to get me to admit to it and i had to force their hand with a legal request ie CPR31.16 but still its stalemate at the moment, as long as we all follow what niddy and 10past6 tell us we will be fine

i understand the panic in all your posts, like i said been there but with time and gaining knowledge i have become immune to the threats in the letters now, i dont take no calls from anyone anymore and that is a huge help and i certainly dont call anyone niether, all in writing my friends:)

at the end of the day ive always wondered why dont they just take me to court on the 1st reply they sent to me, and yet they just default and sell the debt on, ive not been chased for a 5500 for over a year and yets it been sold on and yet its just showing as a default on my credit file surely it would be easy to just take me to court or chase me yet its all a bit confusing.

just keep positive and take heart that niddy and 10past6 do know their stuff and try and get all your paperwork in one folder for each creditor and get a running timeline so at a glance you know where you are as its really easy to get confused like i do:o

but it helps you honestly,

have a sunny day all and together we can all get through this MAZ

MummyandPaige

Hi

I have been reading through the first dozen pages trying to find a similar situation, but couldn't. Apologies if I am repeating something here, and thankyou in advance for taking the time to reply.

ok, the situation is, I am in a bit of !!!!!!. I have about £18k of debt (CCs and loans) that everyone wanted to give me 5 years ago. They have all defaulted as I lost my job. I suppose questions are:

1) They have been passed onto various different DCAs over the years. Does this mean that the 6 year rule starts again for each different DCA?

2) Never made a payment to the DCAs as I couldn't afford to, but at least 2 of them I have answered the phone to a few years ago. Does this matter?

3)The loan has a PPI attached to it, is it worth, or can I reclaim that if it is with the DCA and hasn't been paid, or do I have to pay it first, then reclaim?

4) With regards to the bank charges, one of the debts is for an OD of £500, which after job was lost accumulated £3000 worth of charges ontop in the space of 6 months, is there anything I can do about this?

Have posted on the DFW board looking for advice, but I think instead of waiting for the hel to come to me, I should be actively looking for it, so ended up here as a starting point. Total debt is £33k, and income is low, but unsure as to what to do next. Would it be best to persue unenforcability for the £18k as a possibility or would that make things worse if they were then proved enforcable? I have moved around a bit over the last 5 years mainly due to renting, but now want to stay put, think this maybe the reason I have had minimal reercussions from DCAs as it took about 6 months for them to find my new address and start the letter sending again, and the longest I have stayed in a property was 15 months, so I wasn't there long enough to recieve that many before they started getting return to sender.

Thanks in advance x

never-in-doubt

scarednshakin wrote: »

Hoping Niddy will say they are unenforceable, so fingers crossed

Regards to Lloyds - this is enforceable in so much as the paperwork they have sent does contain all the required elements to enforce the loan - however, there is no signature page - did you omit this on purpose or have they not sent it?

I need there to be a signature at the bottom of one of the pages, yours and theirs - it should really be at the bottom of the image that outlines the amount of loan, apr, repayments etc...... i.e. the actual agreement.

So, without the signature page it is unenforceable, if/when they supply that then it becomes enforceable - so depends if you have it or not,

1. If you have the signature page then you need to arrange repayments as it is enforceable
2. If you do not have it, then send this: CCA Query - Copy Document Supplied

never-in-doubt

scarednshakin wrote: »

Hoping Niddy will say they are unenforceable, so fingers crossed

Regards to Morgan Stanley/BarclayCard - this is enforceable in so much as the paperwork they have sent does contain all the required elements to enforce the agreement.

Its worth blagging to be fair, nothing to lose. I'd respond with this and see what comes back from them: CCA Query

never-in-doubt

maz1964 wrote: »

hiya all

for those of you that are really worried please dont panic, know its hard, been there myself about a couple of years ago, sick to the pit of my stomach, but like niddy is saying pls all calm down, nothing can happen its the weekend,,,,

but i can say above from experience and thats all, yes ive had a court claim but they tried to get me to admit to it and i had to force their hand with a legal request ie CPR31.16 but still its stalemate at the moment, as long as we all follow what niddy and 10past6 tell us we will be fine

i understand the panic in all your posts, like i said been there but with time and gaining knowledge i have become immune to the threats in the letters now, i dont take no calls from anyone anymore and that is a huge help and i certainly dont call anyone niether, all in writing my friends:)

at the end of the day ive always wondered why dont they just take me to court on the 1st reply they sent to me, and yet they just default and sell the debt on, ive not been chased for a 5500 for over a year and yets it been sold on and yet its just showing as a default on my credit file surely it would be easy to just take me to court or chase me yet its all a bit confusing.

just keep positive and take heart that niddy and 10past6 do know their stuff and try and get all your paperwork in one folder for each creditor and get a running timeline so at a glance you know where you are as its really easy to get confused like i do:o

but it helps you honestly,

have a sunny day all and together we can all get through this MAZ

Hi Maz

Thanks for the words of encouragement above. I'm sure plenty of people will feel better seeing it is not all doom-and-gloom. You're right in that i'll guide people through things until such point they issue court papers which is when we usually get our friend 10past6 involved as he is the specialist in getting CCJ's etc set aside (cancelled).

The way to victory is to file your paperwork properly do not tell the creditor/dca any more than they need to know and for goodness sake - do not admit to things without running it past us guys first! The worse mistake is whereby someone admits to receiving a form that they never, through confusion, which is then brought back to haunt them...... Just bear in mind, better to be cautious than to be reckless.

If the creditor/dca was to pursue court action then they have to be doing it for 2 reasons, first is they believe the agreement is enforceable and second is they are trying it on.

In most cases, it is not worth them pursuing court, imagine if they were to lose - that would set precedent which could be detrimental to the lender in question so not all companies opt for this risky route - instead, some will simply sell the debt on and try new collection firms until either you reach stalemate or you give in.

In honesty, not many people here will ever have to step foot inside a courtroom - less likely that anyone will have court papers issued, unless the lender thinks they are being clever. As you'll soon find out (hopefully) from mojoparrot, not all claims for CCJ are accurate and some can be quite easy to defend - given the right help, thus I always say don't panic and wait until we've spoke to 10past6 before rushing into things.

These things have an uncanny way of resolving themselves the longer time goes on - as you've identified, its been over a year now and really, all you're doing is counting down your statute barred clock, which means when the default vanishes after 6 years, the lender cannot then attempt a CCJ - as the debt should be SB'd around the same time.

But you're right, worrying really doesn't help matters and as I always say - it is not illegal to get into debt, worse case sceanrio you have to arrange to a repayment plan, you offer £1 per week for infinity or you simply ignore them and eventually they will go away!!

never-in-doubt

MummyandPaige wrote: »

Hi

I have been reading through the first dozen pages trying to find a similar situation, but couldn't. Apologies if I am repeating something here, and thankyou in advance for taking the time to reply.

Hiya and welcome

MummyandPaige wrote: »

1) They have been passed onto various different DCAs over the years. Does this mean that the 6 year rule starts again for each different DCA?

No, the 6 year Statute Barred rule starts from when you last acknowledged the debt, so in theory it would be when you last paid, 99% of the time.

MummyandPaige wrote: »

2) Never made a payment to the DCAs as I couldn't afford to, but at least 2 of them I have answered the phone to a few years ago. Does this matter?

Nope - not in the slightest.

MummyandPaige wrote: »

3)The loan has a PPI attached to it, is it worth, or can I reclaim that if it is with the DCA and hasn't been paid, or do I have to pay it first, then reclaim?

Do this and you're acknowledging the debt and restarting the SB clock - also no PPi refund would be payable to you, it simply goes back into the dormant account to repay arrears and reduce the balance.

MummyandPaige wrote: »

4) With regards to the bank charges, one of the debts is for an OD of £500, which after job was lost accumulated £3000 worth of charges ontop in the space of 6 months, is there anything I can do about this?

Overdrafts are CCA1974 exempt as it is classified as a "service" or "utility" - not structred lending so no need to be regulated. Ergo, unfortunately you are best ignoring this and trying to see out the 6 years until SB.

MummyandPaige wrote: »

Have posted on the DFW board looking for advice, but I think instead of waiting for the hel to come to me, I should be actively looking for it, so ended up here as a starting point.

Wise choice

MummyandPaige wrote: »

Total debt is £33k, and income is low, but unsure as to what to do next. Would it be best to persue unenforcability for the £18k as a possibility or would that make things worse if they were then proved enforcable?

Tell me more, list the lenders, the dates you took the agreement (and types, i.e. loan/card etc), the date last paid and the default date.

MummyandPaige wrote: »

I have moved around a bit over the last 5 years mainly due to renting, but now want to stay put, think this maybe the reason I have had minimal reercussions from DCAs as it took about 6 months for them to find my new address and start the letter sending again, and the longest I have stayed in a property was 15 months, so I wasn't there long enough to recieve that many before they started getting return to sender.

Have the lenders/dca's caught up with you at your current address? Have you actually acknowledged or replied to any of them? If not, i'd carry on hiding - attempting UE could make things worse, for example what if they got a CCJ now - this would add another 6 years onto your SB clock.

MummyandPaige wrote: »

Thanks in advance x

You're welcome, post back details to my questions and i'll advise as accordingly.

jinny

Thanks Nid for your calming words. They will help me and peeps on here to relax and enjoy the lovely sunshine this weekend. You have helped me realise after reading all the posts that yes we messed up and yes we were stupid, but hey who hasnt in this life at some point. Through you, I found the confidence to stand up to these blighters and treat them with the contempt they deserve. I have a right to put the phone down and ignore these vultures. The original debtor has had their money many times over with all the interest they charge. So I say dont let them get to you by their unlawful pratices. Intimidation and using that to feed your shame and worry is their only weapon. I still get panic moments but I just come on this thread to get support from Nid and maybe someone in the same boat who is perhaps feeling stronger than me that day. Bless you all. Bless you Nid.:)

Locke

Lovely day outside, NID.:)

I've received a reply from Capital One for the CCA Query letter you told me to send in post #2191 and they are basically saying they've previously provided me with a copy of my current agreement and a reconstituted copy of my original agreement.

They also say that if proceedings were commenced by me on the basis that there was no enforceable agreement between us that they would strongly defend this.

So which letter do I hit them with next?