Unenforceability & Template Letters III

never-in-doubt

Aimsleey wrote: »

NID- I love reading your replies to people... your a bit of a genius!! I wonder if you can help me with a reply to CCA request that I received from HFO (for Barclaycard). I CCA'd all my creditors & have had 3 write back to admit they have nothing HFO sent me what seems to be a photocopy of a summary of my application form and it does have my signature & date on it (2004) so I think it may be enforceable (as their very grumpy letter warns me) but I wonder if you would have a look just on the off-chance? They have also all of a sudden added 12% interest which brings the total due from £761 up to £1139!
Would you mind if I pm'd it to you?

Hiya - thanks for PM and scanned [STRIKE]agreement[/STRIKE] application form :rotfl:

Ignore their grumpy letter, if what they have sent you is enforceable then i'm the queen of England!

It is 100% unenforceable, respond with the following: CCA Query

You will not have to repay this debt, however you will be defaulted - bear that in mind (you're only young, do you really want to ruin your credit status?)

never-in-doubt

mojoparrot wrote: »

Yes so I see and increasing:o
The M & S card was on a technicality it was a store card then changed to visa, so I was to say the agreement was not a varying agreement. Looks like they are trying to erase the 10 years when the account was a store card and are making out that all they have on the account is starting at the visa stage. The other account that I have with M & S looks like they have altered the paperwork to support this. The other account was taken after the store card so the application/ agreement that i completed then asks me to make reference to the store card and they have blocked that out.
The new copy of the same CCA that I have for the store card contains a signature and from a M & S person which has been blanked out in the new copy so clearly they have been tampering with the agreememt!:eek::eek:
Will sort through my stuff and email you something that you can work with. Loads of CCA's came back at once but some of the stuff I can work through your flow chart.
THANKS!:)
Mojo

Hiya Mojo

Did I not previously check this though and advise you at that time what to respond with? I don't need to see anything else, that is fine. But I thought we said to send the final response letter off? Didn't we?

mojoparrot

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya Mojo

Did I not previously check this though and advise you at that time what to respond with? I don't need to see anything else, that is fine. But I thought we said to send the final response letter off? Didn't we?

Yes will do just wondered whether the signature would make a difference?:o

never-in-doubt

mojoparrot wrote: »

Yes will do just wondered whether the signature would make a difference?:o

Nope,

No difference - we want to see the original signed store card agreement, the original signed (or variable) change from store to credit card agreement and the terms in place at outset, and the terms in place at the change of variable and also current terms.

They aint sent half of it...... move on, send the reply I quoted and see what they reply with - don't dwell on the old SAR documents.....

mojoparrot

:eek::eek:J

Just amazed that different things show up on something that should be the same. Just cant get over that!! I always trusted lenders and thought everything would be above board. I know DCA's are sometimes a little tricky but realloy blown away by the manipulation of documents!!:eek::eek:

averageguy11

Yep will do

Aimsleey

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya - thanks for PM and scanned [STRIKE]agreement[/STRIKE] application form :rotfl:

Ignore their grumpy letter, if what they have sent you is enforceable then i'm the queen of England!

It is 100% unenforceable, respond with the following: cca query

You will not have to repay this debt, however you will be defaulted - bear that in mind (you're only young, do you really want to ruin your credit status?)

Aimsleey wrote: »

Thank you so much NID!! I did think so but didn't want to get too excited. I already have a default on this account so no stress there. I sent the CCA query letter last week after I received the document I sent you, yesterday I got the exact same document again, a print out of my transactions & a copy of the default notice.

The accompanying letter says- "you claim that your account is in dispute but you have not outlined the disputes that you have on your account. As the section 77/78 is not considered as an account with a dispute we have pleasure in providing you with the new OFT guidelines with regards to the section 77/78 request which came into force in January 2010 following the McGuffick & Rankine judgements which confirms the changes to your request."

I think they know that I don't have a clue what they (or I!!) am talking about

Oops... just checked my paperwork & I actually sent them the "Cease & Desist" letter- I think I should have contacted you before I sent my letter off. Shall I just go ahead and send the CCA Query as it is?

never-in-doubt

Aimsleey wrote: »

Thank you so much NID!! I did think so but didn't want to get too excited. I already have a default on this account so no stress there. I sent the CCA query letter last week after I received the document I sent you, yesterday I got the exact same document again, a print out of my transactions & a copy of the default notice.

The accompanying letter says- "you claim that your account is in dispute but you have not outlined the disputes that you have on your account. As the section 77/78 is not considered as an account with a dispute we have pleasure in providing you with the new OFT guidelines with regards to the section 77/78 request which came into force in January 2010 following the McGuffick & Rankine judgements which confirms the changes to your request."

I think they know that I don't have a clue what they (or I!!) am talking about

Hiya

Yep it is unenforceable, I can't be bothered typing a personal response - also you don't really need one BUT suffice to say, they are talking utter utter !!!!!!! Sorry, but they really are!

There are no new OFT Guidelines, yea there is OFT guidance notes, BUT these help us, the consumer - NOT the bloody banks :mad:

Basically, the only thing that McGuffick done was allowed banks to add a default. The Carey v HSBC case allowed for the lender to use reasonable collection activities on an UE debt, but still they cannot obtain judgement. Regards to Rankine, well this is totally irrelevant in your case but the same principles applied to that case, other than the fact that withough the original they cannot enforce the debt, however a recon is now allowed so long as it is not a fraudulent copy (cut and paste) - using data that was previously never there, however a recon cannot be used to enfore judgement in court either!

See what I mean? They do not have a bloody clue :mad:

basically, the recent OFT "guidelines" (lol sorry that's funny) simply confirm that it is unlawful for the lender to mislead us, if they do not have the original then they should tell us - not deceive us (hint hint)! It also confirm that an original needs to be provided to the court to make any enforcement and also that a recon can be supplied at s.78 request time.

Simples when you know how! Shame they do not :rotfl:

never-in-doubt

Aimsleey wrote: »

Oops... just checked my paperwork & I actually sent them the "Cease & Desist" letter- I think I should have contacted you before I sent my letter off. Shall I just go ahead and send the CCA Query as it is?

You have already sent it? Ooops, that suggests you've not received anything and you are giving them time to send it, all this does is give them more time to send the same paperwork again.

Leave things as they are until they respond again..... then contact me before sending letters!

* Niddy checks flow charts for possible mistakes, nope - it does not say anywhere to send a s.10 if they respond with an application form! hehe (sorry, meeow!) :rotfl:

never-in-doubt

mojoparrot wrote: »

:eek::eek:J

Just amazed that different things show up on something that should be the same. Just cant get over that!! I always trusted lenders and thought everything would be above board. I know DCA's are sometimes a little tricky but realloy blown away by the manipulation of documents!!:eek::eek:

You'll notice on page 1 I do have a template for a fraudulent copy, but this isn't relevant right now..... don't be tempted to send it...