Just a hypothetical question on S.75 of CCA

4743hudsonj

As above, im just wondering about something and wether it would in fact be covered by the consumer credit act's s75 or not.

Basically, yesterday i bought a bed from ikea. Now the whole bed came to over £200, and i paid part of this on CC as i would do for any purchase. However, i then realised, all of the items are sold separately, and as such, no single item amounted to over £100(Frame £99, Mattress £90, Slats £16, Mid beam £14). So does this mean that none of the purchase was covered?

Similarly, i was just wondering, what if the frame was over £100, this would obviously be covered, but would the other parts also be covered as they are obviously needed for the complete bed.

My guess on both of these situations is no but thought i would check as i only know basics of CCA.

Cheers guys

DrScotsman

I am going to make a somewhat educated guess that there will be some sensible restrictions as to whether or not an item can be "split up".

Analogy: Take a PC. You can buy a complete PC, in which case the PC is one good, or you could buy all the parts individually and have the seller put it together for you, in which case it's many goods. I imagine some sellers would therefore try to restrict their Sale of Goods Act liabilities by doing the former but if anything goes wrong claim they're doing the latter, and I imagine that for example with respect to SOGA (namely right to reject goods that don't conform to contract within a reasonable length of time) it would count as a "single item".

My point is that if Ikea did anything symbolising the bed as one item (e.g. not allowing the parts to be sold individually, or maybe even just showing it put together in the store with a price sticker), then I reckon you'd have a case (under section 75 or the law otherwise)

4743hudsonj

DrScotsman wrote: »

I am going to make a somewhat educated guess that there will be some sensible restrictions as to whether or not an item can be "split up".

Analogy: Take a PC. You can buy a complete PC, in which case the PC is one good, or you could buy all the parts individually and have the seller put it together for you, in which case it's many goods. I imagine some sellers would therefore try to restrict their Sale of Goods Act liabilities by doing the former but if anything goes wrong claim they're doing the latter, and I imagine that for example with respect to SOGA (namely right to reject goods that don't conform to contract within a reasonable length of time) it would count as a "single item".

My point is that if Ikea did anything symbolising the bed as one item (e.g. not allowing the parts to be sold individually, or maybe even just showing it put together in the store with a price sticker), then I reckon you'd have a case (under section 75 or the law otherwise)

Thats the problem, everything is interchangeable. There are a couple of slat types in different sizes, any of which are interchangeable among fames. Mattresses are the same, as long as its the correct size it doesnt matter what you have.

Thats where i think the issue is, that and the fact nothing says you cant just buy a frame on its own. They are completely separate items and you could just buy one of them.

Thinking about it, i suppose it would be like buying pc parts from ebuyer for a self build, assuming no components were over £100, i bet you have no rights under CCA despite them being purchases at the same time (i assume the £100 counts on individual goods and not purchases as a whole?)

DrScotsman

Well like I said, if there was anything showing off the exact bed you bought as one item (leaflet/advertisement/on display) then I reckon you would be covered, as you offered to buy the bed - not its components - and they accepted your offer forming the contract for the bed, regardless of what the receipt itself says. But it sounds like you're confident that wasn't the case.

Under the eBuyer scenario you mention you definitely wouldn't have any s75 rights - you're correct in your assumption it's the cost of the individual goods. However if they advertised all the parts as a "build it yourself bundle", then I think you would have rights (although I doubt such a thing would exist nowadays!)

4743hudsonj

DrScotsman wrote: »

Well like I said, if there was anything showing off the exact bed you bought as one item (leaflet/advertisement/on display) then I reckon you would be covered, as you offered to buy the bed - not its components - and they accepted your offer forming the contract for the bed, regardless of what the receipt itself says. But it sounds like you're confident that wasn't the case.

Under the eBuyer scenario you mention you definitely wouldn't have any s75 rights - you're correct in your assumption it's the cost of the individual goods. However if they advertised all the parts as a "build it yourself bundle", then I think you would have rights (although I doubt such a thing would exist nowadays!)

Well not sure if you know how ikea works but if not its basically a show room showing atleast one of each product in various combinations. Not always the combination you want. And even if they were, they all have their separate price tags etc, so it is similar to the ebuyer scenario, without a package offer like you said. You have to walk around all of the beds, trying to find your frame, and its location in the warehouse. Then find the mattress which was on another bed . Then find your slats whcih are of course on another bed! Very annoying as this is the only way there locations can be found in the warehouse really.

Oh well, not too much of an issue, just means there was little point in using my CC

DrScotsman

4743hudsonj wrote: »

Well not sure if you know how ikea works but if not its basically a show room showing atleast one of each product in various combinations. Not always the combination you want. And even if they were, they all have their separate rice tags etc, so it is similar to the ebuyer scenario, without a package offer like you said.

Well I think it being the combination you want might actually be sufficient. Especially if a salesperson came up to you and said "we'll sell you that bed for £x" (can't remember if salespeople roam around Ikea or not, haven't been in years )

Oh well, not too much of an issue, just means there was little point in using my CC

Not true. If anything happened the CC company might slip up and count it as one item, or they might pay up as a gesture of goodwill, things that have a 0% chance of happening with a debit card. As long as there wasn't a credit card surcharge then it was probably the best thing to do.

4743hudsonj

DrScotsman wrote: »

Well I think it being the combination you want might actually be sufficient. Especially if a salesperson came up to you and said "we'll sell you that bed for £x" (can't remember if salespeople roam around Ikea or not, haven't been in years )



Not true. If anything happened the CC company might slip up and count it as one item, or they might pay up as a gesture of goodwill, things that have a 0% chance of happening with a debit card. As long as there wasn't a credit card surcharge then it was probably the best thing to do.

No salesmen really, its all self service, unless your lucky enough to find someone for help but it is all finding stuff and pricing it up for yourself. They wont really help you much. As for a surcharge, it was 70p which wasnt terrible so i think ill just forget about it all and hope my CC company do cough up if something does go wrong.

Cheers for your help.

Optimist

Your credit card bill is going to be over £100 not a lot of individual prices and if you ever come to claim using Section 75 legislation I presume your going to refer to the bed in its entirety and not each individual item that makes up the bed.

There is no reason to show the bill with individual pricing and its not unreasonable to expect the complete bed to be one item and thus covered.

DrScotsman

Optimist wrote: »

There is no reason to show the bill with individual pricing

Not entirely sure I agree with that last part. Surely in the event of a s75 claim it wouldn't be unreasonable for the CC Company to want proof of what you've bought? (Assuming you don't lie and say you've lost it)

and its not unreasonable to expect the complete bed to be one item and thus covered.

It's not that I disagree with you (I mean if anything happened then the OP should definitely be following your advice, no argument there), but I'm just wondering where you draw the line as to what can be construed as "one item".

Optimist

DrScotsman wrote: »

Not entirely sure I agree with that last part. Surely in the event of a s75 claim it wouldn't be unreasonable for the CC Company to want proof of what you've bought? (Assuming you don't lie and say you've lost it)



It's not that I disagree with you (I mean if anything happened then the OP should definitely be following your advice, no argument there), but I'm just wondering where you draw the line as to what can be construed as "one item".

The credit card company already have a record......

Ahhh I see what your saying after re reading the initial post. The item was only part paid by credit card. Teach me to scan without reading lol

I think if the CC company wanted to be pedantic they could refuse but if it went to the ombudsman common sense would prevail and it would be classed as just what it was a bed.

DrScotsman

Optimist wrote: »

Ahhh I see what your saying after re reading the initial post. The item was only part paid by credit card. Teach me to scan without reading lol

Erm...yeah, I read that part, I didn't gloss over it either :whistle: (was wondering why the credit card surcharge was quite cheap)

I think if the CC company wanted to be pedantic they could refuse but if it went to the ombudsman common sense would prevail and it would be classed as just what it was a bed.

Well I agree the ombudsman would probably say a bed is a bed. I'm just wondering where it ends. How about the computer example? How about if you go on CCL, pick your computer parts and then ask them to build it for you? (I specifically mention CCL as I know a lot of websites you choose the computer and then substitute parts, but with CCL it really is a bare bones build)