Nightmare Landlord - witholding rent questions

karenlisam

Is there ever any just cause to with hold rent from a landlord ?? Full story below ( sorry long!!) and some questions at the end for anyone who knows about this kind of thing

We signed a 12 month contract in July 2009 and despite being really flexible with him as a lot was wrong with the house then we've basically been living a nightmare since July.

In mid July a pipe broke under the kitchen floor and he didn't get it fixed until mid august meaning we spent four weeks only being able to have the water on for an hour a day so we could bathe and had to then spend an hour after the bath mopping up

In August we reported damp walls in the kitchen and living room ( to the extent that the plaster fell off the walls , most of the low level plug sockets are usuable as they're soaked and mold is growing ). He keeps promising the work will be done each month and then never sends anyone round

The pipe under the bath cracked in December and flooded the floor everytime we empty the bath. Despite phone calls every two days then all he did was send his son round three times with gaffer tape!!

In December I also informed him the flat roof was leaking down the kitchen wall. He got someone round to replace it after eight weeks of us having a flooded kitchen again every day as by this point it was leaking from the walls into cupboards , down onto floors ... and he's so cheap he's got them to use shed felt roofing which will be leaking again within weeks as we've had a look and its not sealed on properly. The water from this has now soaked the kitchen ceiling which in turn blew up the downstairs lighting. The light switch wasn't even turned on so there must be a live wire in the fitting. We now have no lighting downstairs and have had to bring lamps from downstairs down

Two days ago I called him and told him that I was having someone round to divert a broken waterpipe which was flowing on to the flat roof (and would just mean more leaks down the wall) and also to fix the bath pipe to my satisfaction and I was taking the money out of the rent due next week and he reluctantly agreed. I left him a message that night informing him about the emergency lighting situation and has not responded.(48 hours now)

The last straw was that the chap that came in to fix the bath pipe looked at the mold on the kitchen walls and says its black spore mold which is highly dangerous and never should have been left since August

I know theres no way the tight fisted landlord will pay for repairs and he's going to try and drag this out until our tenancy is up to avoid repairs and I don't want to keep having to use rent which isn't even due yet to fix HIS HOUSE. I also don't see why I should have to pay full rent while I wait for him to ignore legal letters about what needs to be done and by then my tenancy will be up

I am self employed and I simply cannot pull together the £1200 it will cost me in deposit and first months rent needed to move until July. I also know by gut instinct that he's not going to give me back my deposit when I leave (and I can't afford to wait and chase him) so I figure I need to at least not pay the last months rent to ensure my deposit return.

SO MY QUESTIONS ARE : Realistically what action can he take if I stop paying the rent from next week.

q1) Most importantly How long would it take him to get a court order to evict me ?? I know he can evict within 14 days but how long will it take him to get into court to get the eviction order and can I contest it to get more time

q2) Would the court allow him to evict me before I can afford to move given that I'm living in awful condition ( I have photo evidence of everything and full notes on when he was informed about problems. Would any court agree I still owe the rent if he tries to take me to court after I leave for non payment.

q3) I know he should be holding my deposit in a government scheme and most likely wont be so can he even get this to court if he's not. How can I find out if he is registered?

q4) If I withold the rent next week and again on the 1st of April then I could afford to move out mid April instead of having to live like this until July. I should also mention that the non fixed leaks have ruined 2 rugs totaling £100 , a mini oven and a microwave worth £170 and I've had to have the heating on full since September all day and night to dry things out and have also been doing at least five extra loads of washing and tumbledrying every week since we moved in to keep up with the towels we have been using to stop the various leaks.

I have already paid £300 for his repairs and he will owe me £600 deposit so I'll only actually be witholding £300 in total - is that reasonable ???
If there was any way I could get the money elsewhere I would leave NOW but I can't so need to look at my options
　
any help so appreciated. I could cry right now!!!

sequence

karenlisam wrote: »

SO MY QUESTIONS ARE : Realistically what action can he take if I stop paying the rent from next week.

q1) Most importantly How long would it take him to get a court order to evict me ?? I know he can evict within 14 days but how long will it take him to get into court to get the eviction order and can I contest it to get more time

You can't withhold rent legally without following the correct procedure (see shelter website).

q2) Would the court allow him to evict me before I can afford to move given that I'm living in awful condition ( I have photo evidence of everything and full notes on when he was informed about problems. Would any court agree I still owe the rent if he tries to take me to court after I leave for non payment.

He can't evict you until a.) the end of the AST or b.)You are two months in arrears with the rent (keep it under that. BUt seriously, why would he evict you, in his eyes your a perfect tenant sorting out repairs and not contacting environmental health and your private letting team at the council.

q3) I know he should be holding my deposit in a government scheme and most likely wont be so can he even get this to court if he's not. How can I find out if he is registered?

There are only three schemes (sorry don't know there names but someone will be along that does).

q4) If I withold the rent next week and again on the 1st of April then I could afford to move out mid April instead of having to live like this until July. I should also mention that the non fixed leaks have ruined 2 rugs totaling £100 , a mini oven and a microwave worth £170 and I've had to have the heating on full since September all day and night to dry things out and have also been doing at least five extra loads of washing and tumbledrying every week since we moved in to keep up with the towels we have been using to stop the various leaks.

You can't hold him liable for any damages as this should be covered by your contents insurance.

I have already paid £300 for his repairs and he will owe me £600 deposit so I'll only actually be witholding £300 in total - is that reasonable ???
If there was any way I could get the money elsewhere I would leave NOW but I can't so need to look at my options

The repairs shouldn't come out of your deposit.

any help so appreciated. I could cry right now!!!

Sorry I can't be more positive, but really you needed to have contacted the council - you shouldn't have to live like that and a council enforcement is the only way this cowboy is going to get anything done.

Contact environmental health and council private rental team ASAP is your best option.

Hope you get it all sorted soon.

karenlisam

Thanks

Its a private resendential rental - can I still contact the council ???

I contacted environmental health before xmas and were told they were busy and to call back in February!!!!!!!!!

clutton_2

what a swine... i hate landlords like this, they gives the rest of us a really bad name

you must keep paying the rent, at least for the time being

"I know he should be holding my deposit in a government scheme and most likely wont be so can he even get this to court if he's not."

the 3 schemes are TDS, Mydeposits, and DPS - you go onto each site and input your postcode and see if you are registered... he legally should have lodged the deposit and also sent you the "prescribed information" within 14 days of you giving it him

If he has not lodged the deposit he cannot issue with a Section 21 notice to quit (unless you more than 8 weeks in arrears)

yes he can be taken to court and you could win and could be awarded 3 times the deposit as a penalty - however, there have been several cases where landlords have belatedly lodged the money and the judge did not award a penalty to the tenant - a few tenants have been awarded the money -

what you have to think tho - is - has he got any money ?? its no good suing him if he has no cash.... completely pointless exercise.....

you need to write him a Letter Before Action about the repairs, and threaten him with Environmental Health if he does not repair the roof in 14 days... then if he does not, go down to EH and sit and wait till you get seen....

Please read your tenancy agreement and see if you have a "break clause at 6 months" this could mean that you can legitimately leave at the 6 molnths period...

if he takes you to court - but what for ? - it could take him months... he has to issue a Section 21 notice - ie your 2 months notice, then he has to apply to court for a possession order (probably another 2 months), then you still dont have to leave and he has to get the bailiffs to make you leave... These court fees will cost him £245 - but you could have to pay those if the judge says so.

i very very very rarely suggest tenants with-hold rent, but, i just might consider this a good move in your case (as a good landlord this breaks my heart to recommend it, but, with swines like this.. it is sometimes the only way)

after you leave, report him to the council for non-lodgment of deposit monies and lack of repairs... they have a statutorty duty to investigate .....

good luck

karenlisam

Thank you so much
I was a bit scared of posting as I thought all the landlords would shout at me and tell me to keep paying and write him a letter about the work !!!

Can I clarify something then ???

If I do decide to with hold rent in order to save up quick and get out of this hellhole then there is nothing he can do for eight weeks/two months??

If I don't pay the remaining half of Marchs rent on the 1st March ( have already spent half on his repairs) then should I contact him to let him know I don't intend to pay or should I avoid him?? Should I send him a letter stating I am witholding rent until x, y and z are fixed and just let him get on with a court order if he chooses to do so??

If he wants to come round to do repairs (ha ha!!) then I assume I have to let him in - he's a bit of a scary man so I assume I should keep someone here with me and phone the police if he tries to get us out without a court order??

I will be certain to report him when we are gone. He's a disgrace .

I feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel so thankyou thankyou thankyou

Fire_Fox

Please send a recorded delivery letter detailing the complaints and your attempts to contact the landlord to date. This is for your protection if this ends up in court, you must be able to prove you made all reasonable efforts to sort the issues out. Contact EH again too.

poppysarah

Speak to env health again.
If they brush you off put a letter in writing to them and CC it to your local councillors (All of them ideally, esp if they are different parties)

N79

karenlisam wrote: »

Thank you so much
I was a bit scared of posting as I thought all the landlords would shout at me and tell me to keep paying and write him a letter about the work !!!

As Clutton has said, this sort of criminal just !!!!es us off.

Can I clarify something then ???

If I do decide to with hold rent in order to save up quick and get out of this hellhole then there is nothing he can do for eight weeks/two months??

Stictly speaking he can apply to a court to have you evicted as soon as your rent is 1 day late. However, this is what is called a discretionary ground for eviction ie the court decides whether you should be evicted or not. In reality, most courts will not evict for such small transgressions and if you told the court your tale above then I'm sure that even fewer courts would consider it. Once your rent is two months unpaid then the LL can apply to have you evicted on a mandatory ground. This means that the court must evict you, whatever the extenuating circumstance. Hence most LLs go to court only once a T is 2 months in arrears.

If I don't pay the remaining half of Marchs rent on the 1st March ( have already spent half on his repairs) then should I contact him to let him know I don't intend to pay or should I avoid him?? Should I send him a letter stating I am witholding rent until x, y and z are fixed and just let him get on with a court order if he chooses to do so??

I would always advocate telling your LL in writing what you are doing. That way, if he sues you for the missing rent you can show that you have acted reasonably and your letter will be part of your proof to defend the claim. Courts like to help the reasonable and punish the unreasonable (such as your LL) and will go to great lengths to try to get a "just" resolution.

If he wants to come round to do repairs (ha ha!!) then I assume I have to let him in - he's a bit of a scary man so I assume I should keep someone here with me and phone the police if he tries to get us out without a court order??

Yes

robpw2

can i ask where this landlord is ? just he sounds very similar to the one i had

princeofpounds

I recommend that you do not just stop paying rent. You will not be able to escape the liability and may end up with a CCJ against your name if you have any difficulty paying it once you are out of the place.

You should be able to resolve the situation fairly quickly once you know the right methods. The law is on your side in this respect, but unfortunately no-one ever teaches people the rules of renting, so many people just don't know how to solve their problems.

Firstly, you have a right to repair and deduct from rent based on case law (google or search the forum here for Lee Parker vs Izzet 1971). You MUST follow the procedure and keep evidence, but if you had done this you would simply not be out of pocket already. Shelter produce a good guide to the procedure and are generally an excellent resource.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/repairs_in_private_lets

Secondly if you have hazardous repairs issues (severe mould, damp do fall in this category) then the EH team at the council should help you. I am very surprised you got the brush-off before - be more assertive and politely demand an inspection. Normally they are pretty helpful and they can issue repairing orders which have legal enforcement.

I hope you reported all your repairing issue to the landlord in writing and kept copies? If not, do so now. This is step one to all issues (you can phone, but follow up in writing always).

As for the tenancy deposit scheme, there are three as noted above. Call them all and in ten minutes you will know if your deposit is protected. If not, then write to the landlord indicating that you know it is not, that he may be liable for a 3x penalty if it is not protected. If there is no response, sue him.

Unfortunately there is a hole in the legislation and late compliance may allow him to avoid the penalty (the details are a bit legalistic), but at least the deposit will then be in a scheme and you can ask the court to award your costs at least. Alternatively, he might get scared and you can agree to let him off the hook if he agrees, in writing, to end your tenancy early on a date of your choosing. You can also increase the pressure to get such a deal by threatening to bring in EH as mentioned above.

If he wants to come round to do repairs (ha ha!!) then I assume I have to let him in - he's a bit of a scary man so I assume I should keep someone here with me and phone the police if he tries to get us out without a court order??

I will be certain to report him when we are gone. He's a disgrace .

You do not have to let him in but if you want repairs done then someone will have to come in. If he tries to get you out (even by cutting off utilities or harrassing you) keep evidence and records, and phone the police saying that you are being illegally evicted. Some police are not well trained in this area and think this is a civil matter - it is not, so if they do then ask them for their number and ask them to speak to their superior officer to confirm.

Oh, and you cannot report him to anyone when you are gone. You only have rights and he only has obligations as long as you are a tenant, not afterwards.

karenlisam

robpw2 - He's based in Leicester but the property is in B30 Birmingham

I phone all three of the deposit companies this morning (my deposits , DPS and TDS) and as suspected the deposit is not lodged

QUESTION ONE: Can he even apply to the court to have us out once the rent is two months late without having lodged the deposit?? IF not then is it in my best interest to not write him a letter about it to gain time to save?? I'm going to be reclaiming it by witholding rent so its no odds now to me but don't want him doing this to someone else in future

Question TWO : As I pay rent in advance for the month then if I miss the payment on 1st March and then 1st April is it the 1st of April that counts as 8 weeks (when month two should be paid) or at the end of April (when the 8 weeks is up)

Bit of a moot point as considering he now owes me half a month rent for the work then I won't be 2 months in arrears until 2.5 months time IYKWIM

QUESTION THREE :
I am getting the invoice for the work I paid for later today. Should I get the builder to write on it cash was recieved by me and then send a copy to the LL with a written copy that this was agreed to be deducted from the rent on 1st March or should I be doing something else

I've taken all my extra photos needed this morning and am going to go and see EH in person on Monday so hopefully he will not be able to do this to anyone in future
Thanks in advance