Being stitched up by tenat and agent-need advice

Tassotti

Are the agents managing this property for you as well? I thought they just found the tenants for you...If this is the case, then what are they charging commission for?

Usually there is a one-off fee for tenant finding service.

I would tell the agent that, as they have turned your property into an HMO, then you will be sending them the bill for all the works that will need doing.

I can't understand why these couples have agreed to it either (or do they know each other)

Did you say you set up an AST for 12 months?

If you post this same thing on http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/

there are some very experienced people there and some legal types that may be able to offer you better advice.

Tass

Kinnairdy

So are your new 'tenants' another group of 'illegals'?, a very odd situation imho.
Not meaning to be rude but you sound very naieve about the BTL business, you will need to toughen up and take charge otherwise you will only loose out financially every time.
It is your property, your decision re choice of tenants, you make the rules not some EA/Agent etc, take charge of your own assets and stop allowing others to railroad you into situations over which you relinquish all control otherwise you will continue to pay others for the priviledge of living in your property instead of making profit.
As previous posters have said check all the references etc yourself, if you are not happy then decline the applicant/s and find others which you are happy with.
If you cannot take charge of the situation then I would respectfully suggest you are not cut out to be a landlord and should consider selling up to alleviate the stress and worry you are probably going to find is a daily part of your business.
Sorry to sound harsh :-)

november

BobProperty wrote:

Looks like a HMO then:
"Under the changes in the Housing Act 2004, if you let a property which is one of the following types it is a House in Multiple Occupation:

* An entire house or flat which is let to 3 or more tenants who form 2 or more households and who share a kitchen, bathroom or toilet. "

and

"The following are 'households' for the purposes of the Housing Act 2004:

Members of the same family living together including:

* Couples married to each other or living together as husband and wife (or in an equivalent relationship in the case of persons of the same sex)
......
Therefore three friends sharing together are considered three households. If a couple are sharing with a third person that would consist of two households. "

Now you need to find out the LA's definition of overcrowding.

Further to Bob's post:

It isn't an HMO subject to mandatory licensing but may be subject to local additional licensing. Mandatory licensing is properites with 3 or more floors (habitable attics and basements are included as floors) and local authorities are allowed to say whether those with less than 3 floors should be licensed so you would need to check to see what your local housing authority are doing in relation to HMO's.

Mandatory Licensing Schemes
The Secretary of State and National Assembly for Wales will prescribe certain categories of HMOs that must be licensed by LHAs in England and Wales respectively.

We intend that this will include HMOs (other than those that are exempt from licensing/ definition and converted blocks) which comprise of three storeys or more and are occupied by five or more persons, who comprise two or more households.

Converted blocks of flats that fall within the definition of HMO (see above) will not be subject to mandatory licensing. The Government intends that additional licensing should be available to tackle such blocks that are problematic (see Additional Licensing Schemes).

In calculating three storeys, regard should be had to attic or basement accommodation used, or capable of being used, for residential purposes. It is also intended that any part of a building not used for residential purposes, such as commercial premises on the ground or upper floor of a building, will form part of the HMO for determining the number of storeys, but shall be excluded for all other purposes. Basements in purely commercial use will not be included.

Cross checked from here: http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1152000#P55_4310

Scarlett1

Kinnairdy wrote:

So are your new 'tenants' another group of 'illegals'?, a very odd situation imho.
Not meaning to be rude but you sound very naieve about the BTL business, you will need to toughen up and take charge otherwise you will only loose out financially every time.
It is your property, your decision re choice of tenants, you make the rules not some EA/Agent etc, take charge of your own assets and stop allowing others to railroad you into situations over which you relinquish all control otherwise you will continue to pay others for the priviledge of living in your property instead of making profit.
As previous posters have said check all the references etc yourself, if you are not happy then decline the applicant/s and find others which you are happy with.
If you cannot take charge of the situation then I would respectfully suggest you are not cut out to be a landlord and should consider selling up to alleviate the stress and worry you are probably going to find is a daily part of your business.
Sorry to sound harsh :-)

I agree with this, and Im really astonished that the OP, after already being stung once, has just gone and made the same mistake twice, why use an agency at all, and even more so, why pay a year up front

Im not actually convinced that the OP is green as cabbage looking, I dont want to sound harsh, but it seems to me that cause she isnt getting the tenants in that she wants, she is trying to get them out early, which could be the case of the last lot

Apologies if im wrong clumsycloggs, but I cant understand how you are jumping out of the frying pan into the fire

clumsycloggs0305

So many different comments from everyone…and to the last poster- we are very new to the BTL business having only bought the flat in Apr 06…our 1st tenants in all fairness would have stayed for the duration had the husband not been deported back to Brazil. They stayed at their previous flat for over 2 years, we have just been very unfortunate. When we complained to the 1st LA that they didn’t do full ref checks, I was advised that they did and that I could not see them due to data protection.

As for the 2nd LA, the way they operate is they sign you up to 1 yrs contract minimum and so they charge 8% commission on the rent. Both LA’s took this in advance so we are assuming that is how they work. You advertise with them and they find you suitable tenants, complete credit checks etc…Now with the 2nd LA, when we asked if they’d done ref checks, they said that we had all the tenants’ payslips, and passport copies, and landlord refs and there was nothing more than that. None of the tenants have a bank account so can’t do credit checks…

The problem was this investment is between me and my brother and he went alone to the LA once they’d found the tenants. My brother stupidly signed the AST on that day, when finding out there were 4 adults + 1 child. When I intervened 2 days later, the LA said it was too late, he had taken £300 holding deposit, and if we terminated the contract before it had begun, we could be taken to court by him/tenants as they would effectively be homeless. The LA wasn’t having it any other way. I was in tears in their office as he was desperately trying to keep the deal that I wasn’t happy with at all. We were not even sure that the property was going to be vacated on time by the 1st tenants (with all the threatening they were doing about they holding deposit…see my earlier post) .

Even now there are so many what if’s…what if the 1st tenant hadn’t moved out? The new one’s couldn’t have got in…then what would have happened to the AST? Why doesn’t any of the new tenants have bank accounts if they are all working? They get paid cash weekly, are they on work permits? The couple without kids, both their passports are with the Home Office as they want to start a business in the UK and apperntly these need to be seen by the HO? What was the 2nd LA so pushy? If he has only introduced the tenants and not managing, why does he not charge an intro fee only?

Anyway, we can see that we are partly at fault by my brother signing up to this too early on. All we can hope is everything stays well for the next 12 months otherwise we will lose financially, again. For the next tenancy, we’ll have learnt a lot from our mistakes and the LA’s dirty tricks of the trade…we have no particular issues with any tenants, in fact we’ve had comments that we are very good landlords so far…but have also learnt not to be Mr/Miss Nice in the BTL business…afterall it’s a business. Our new tenants asked for another double bed and another wardrobe which we provided at very short notice. When I checked them in, they asked for yet another wardrobe, an additional freezer and for me to remove the settee from the previous letting. At that point, I firmed up and said no to the extra wardrobe and freezer, and said I had nowhere to store the sofa…if I provide extra items, what happens to them once they move at the end of the tenancy and the items are no longer required…

Sorry for the rant…thanks for reading, and still happy to receive advice on what we shouldn’t do next time round…

AMILLIONDOLLARS

You sure they're not selling your furniture!!

BobProperty

All I can say is

clumsycloggs0305 wrote:

.... When we complained to the 1st LA that they didn’t do full ref checks, I was advised that they did and that I could not see them due to data protection.....

Bollards

clumsycloggs0305 wrote:

…Now with the 2nd LA, when we asked if they’d done ref checks, they said that we had all the tenants’ payslips, and passport copies, and landlord refs and there was nothing more than that. None of the tenants have a bank account so can’t do credit checks……

Also bollards. Who is the credit check for? It isn't the LA because they are getting a fee up front. I would be very wary of any tenant who says they are a foreign national but who doesn't have a passport. Have they got a receipt for it off the Immigration Department?