Being stitched up by tenat and agent-need advice

BobProperty

Just catching up with this, I'm not as convinced as Tass is that you've got an HMO because to some extent it depends on the local rules and interpretation, but there certainly is the possibility. What there is also the possibility of, and I'll have to go and google the rules, is overcrowding. I think it may depend on the age of the children. You do not want to find you have either, let alone both.

Right- been for a google and the first comment is "What the **** is the agent doing?" Next, it does look like it depends on what the LA says about overcrowding. It looks like you aren't unless they have a floor area definition and the flat is on the small side. BUT, there are different rules for HMO's, so if it does get declared to be an HMO by the LA, then be prepared for some overcrowding questions. How big are the rooms and how old is the child?

Jay1b

An HMO is?

irnbru_2

Jay1b wrote:

An HMO is?

House of Multiple Occupancy.

Tassotti

Definition of HMO

ClumsyCloggs..you need to read up on this


http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1151996

Tass

BobProperty

Looks like a HMO then:
"Under the changes in the Housing Act 2004, if you let a property which is one of the following types it is a House in Multiple Occupation:

* An entire house or flat which is let to 3 or more tenants who form 2 or more households and who share a kitchen, bathroom or toilet. "

and

"The following are 'households' for the purposes of the Housing Act 2004:

Members of the same family living together including:

* Couples married to each other or living together as husband and wife (or in an equivalent relationship in the case of persons of the same sex)
......
Therefore three friends sharing together are considered three households. If a couple are sharing with a third person that would consist of two households. "

Now you need to find out the LA's definition of overcrowding.

lynzpower

Looks as if overcrowding is legally enshrined, but not applied, only enforced locally, ie in nottingham, youd have the same issue in glasgow etc.

Nottingham City Council investigates complaints of overcrowded houses and for this purpose uses the Housing Act 1985 which contains the only legal standard for overcrowding. The Housing Act standard has changed very little since the early 1900s and many people who contact us find that they are not legally overcrowded even though their living conditions are very cramped

http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/sitemap/cd_ph_overcrowding

this also gives guidance on the same, baring in mind there is a space standard that you need to be aware of.
http://www.bathnes.gov.uk/BathNES/socialandhousingservices/housingstandardsandimprovements/housingstandards/OvercrowdinginDwellings.htm

Seemingly it depends on the age of the child thats already born. the unborn child will not count as a person for overcrowding definitions until they are one year old. The child who is born is half a person, or if they are over 10 year old they are a full person under the regs of the act. Although its rather unclear and you could do worse than speaking to your local authority housing department, and preferably speaking to someone who knows the legals. It seems to me that the falt is overcrowded by 1/2-1 person and will be until the unborn is one. If the LA ( do you mean letting agent here? or Local Authority- I presume letting agent) has placed, you can therefore go back to the LA and say that they have created a untenable situation of overcrowding.

I would also then speak to the local authority- private tenancy officer and see whats happened, along with also letting social services know with the family's consent ONLY. Overcrowding can create movement by social services ( ie they can place in self contained accom) , if you as the LL say, you are not happy to allow children to live in overcrowded situaitons blah blah its carp for kids development blah blah and you are not willing to allow it, howerver, you have been stitched up by the letting agent, and you want something doe for the welfare of all involved.

Speak to ARLA and make a complaint, clearly your letting agent is bobbins.

BobProperty

I looked into this further too and concluded that so long as the property was large enough and the following assumptions are true then it isn't overcrowded.
Assuming 2 bedrooms and one reception room, child between age 1 and 10.
There are 3 rooms and the requirement for the tenants is for 2 1/2, so at present the arrangements are OK. If the older child was over 10 and the younger over 1 then you become overcrowded by 1/2. Hope everyone follows that and that I've interpreted the rules correctly.

lynzpower

I understood it was a 1 bed flat, if its a 2 bed flat then bob it seems like you are right. If its a one bed flat then im right

Wickedkitten

I took it to understand that its a two bedroom flat but they have turned the living room into another bedroom. I dunno really, its too early and I haven't had enough caffeine yet.

clumsycloggs0305

Thanks all, this is all too much and I really don't know what I should do. Part of me wants to get rid of them all. Other part says, we've already lost 3 months commision paid to previous agent in advance, and if we serve notice now, that will be another 9 months commision = over £1000. As for the kid, I really couldn't say. He maybe 10/12 years but he may also look older than he is...With regard to the flat, its a 2 bed with separate lounge and kitchen. the famililies consist of one couple with 10-12 old kid and another due soon, the other is one couple. None of the adults have the same surname so the AST is in four names...
Wicked kitten - you are right-the lounge is now a bedroom