Parking Fine for parking outside marked car park bay

maraudersmap

Got a parking ticket today for parking 'outside the marked lines of a parking bay'. The thing is, when I drove into the space, the car to the right of me was parked at an angle outside HIS marked space and the car to the left was parked very near to my space. Apart from that, there was plenty of space to park, so I parked, displayed my parking ticket and left. Upon return, I found a parking fine and, I think, 2 different cars parked (again) at an angle - presumably because I was parked at an angle.

I want to know if the Council can fine me for parking 'outside' a marked bay, in a Council run public car park, when I was forced to park in this position because of other cars. Of course, I have no evidence to prove this, as I wasn't expecting this to happen!

I am SO angry - any advice would be gratefully received - as I feel that this is wrong. I haven't checked what it says on the signs in the car park (going to do that in the next couple of days).

Dave_save

I had exactly the same ticket from a council a couple of years ago. I was parked about 30 cm over the white line due to the adjacent cars being shunted across. I took it to appeal and won based on the facts as stated.

1. That I had paid for the parking, did not overstay and I had the copy of the receipt

2. That I parked as close as possible to the adjacent cars, being sure to leave enough gap for them to be able to enter their car, ie they may have been elderly or disabled.

3. That the Parking Warden must have known this at the time he placed the ticket as he should have been patrolling regularly.

Any reasonable council appeals officer will cancel your charge.

Jubilado

Same thing happened to me yesterday in Kirkcaldy and I too and well p....ed off with the arrogance of issuing a ticket for such triviality.

The car park was empty when I parked (next to a wall - so had to give myself room on that side of the car) and 2 hours later, when I returned to my car, the car park was still empty.

Ticket was given for parking outside a marked bay - it was by a couple of inches only (Kia Sedona) to allow the passenger door to be opened on the wall side.

Never heard of this before BUT am considering paying the £30 fine by cheque. Would it be legal to write 60 x 50p cheques to annoy them back, do you think? OK, I know thats daft, but it would make me feel better!!!

Dave_save

Jubilado wrote: »

Same thing happened to me yesterday in Kirkcaldy and I too and well p....ed off with the arrogance of issuing a ticket for such triviality.

The car park was empty when I parked (next to a wall - so had to give myself room on that side of the car) and 2 hours later, when I returned to my car, the car park was still empty.

Ticket was given for parking outside a marked bay - it was by a couple of inches only (Kia Sedona) to allow the passenger door to be opened on the wall side.

Never heard of this before BUT am considering paying the £30 fine by cheque. Would it be legal to write 60 x 50p cheques to annoy them back, do you think? OK, I know thats daft, but it would make me feel better!!!

That's still £30 of your money though. May surprise you to know, that a lot of council parking fine appeals officers think some of their traffic wardens are over zealous! Therefore when you appeal, do it calmly and with all the facts and you'll more than likely get it cancelled. If you have a pic of the triviality, all the better.

peter_the_piper

Have a check on the signs in the car park. Do they say "parking within a bay" or "parking completely within a bay" . Semantics I know but if you have to stick completely to the rules then so should they.
You could get a copy of any "Parking Place Order" for the car park concerned and see what it says. If it not explicit then there is a chance of beating this. Maybe the order is out of date regarding prices, times etc.
It all depends how much work you are prepared to put into saving £30 or so.
Note all above only applies to council run/franchised car parks, any other just ignore.

maraudersmap

Hi Davesave

Thanks for that - I intend to write a letter to them - and will base it on what you've said. I imagine that whoever parked at an angle, caused all cars for the rest of the afternoon to park 'out of their bay' in that area. The traffic wardens must have had a field day, issuing tickets on every car that parked there!

Peter - I'm pretty certain that there will be a sign saying that users should park within marked bays (which is what a always do), but my argument would be that a) I physically couldn't and b) there's no sign up saying that I SHOULD NOT park in a bay NEXT to cars which are parked at an angle! (Davesave - do you think that is worth mentioning in my letter?).

Thanks folks. :beer:

peter_the_piper

Are you sure? they usually say only within marked bays. Get photo's of the signs and the ticket machine. Then post them on here . Host pics on tinypic, type the url on here leaving off the http:// bit.

maraudersmap

Hi Peter

I've just been and had a look at the sign in the car park, and it says a Penalty Charge Notice will be issued if cars are 'parked beyond the bay markings'.

Coblcris

De minimis and substantial compliance.

Check the Order for the car park, it is that the defines any contraventions not the signs, they merely indicate If the Order is flawed or does not define the ocntravvention the signs are irrelevant.

Coupon-mad

maraudersmap wrote: »

Hi Peter

I've just been and had a look at the sign in the car park, and it says a Penalty Charge Notice will be issued if cars are 'parked beyond the bay markings'.

Then you need to appeal the PCN anyway, IMHO, unless you really want to pay £30 for such a spurious reason?.

Can you post up pics of the front and back of the PCN on pepipoo.com forums here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

If you want to appeal this, they will find you some reasons to appeal if there are some (plenty of PCNs are overturned on a wording technicality).

You could also go to the Council offices, or email them next week, and ask for a copy of the PPO (parking places order) that relates to that car park. As advised by Coblcris above.

The PPO is the final word on what is and isn't a contravention in a car park (not the signs, funnily enough!).

Coblcris

Car Park signs are outwith the TSRGD, however they must be clear.