Civil Servant Bashing

drew2k9

so you are saying an entry level civil servant and an entry level policeman/woman should be paid the same?

i think nurses fireservice police etc all in the emergency services should be paid the same wage as they are people who save lives etc, but civil servants deserve the pay they are on and definately do not deserve bonuses or pay rises, they do the same kind of work i do, only my work here is a lot harder than my nics times, and i got paid a lot more for the privilage of less work more holidays and working with people who didnt give a stuff. i would also mention i was in one of the busiest offices as i was working directly for a minister (undisclosed)

Snoozle

drew2k9 wrote: »

civil servants deserve the pay they are on and definately do not deserve bonuses or pay rises, they do the same kind of work i do, only my work here is a lot harder than my nics times, and i got paid a lot more for the privilage of less work more holidays and working with people who didnt give a stuff. i would also mention i was in one of the busiest offices as i was working directly for a minister (undisclosed)

But if the civil service was such an easy ride, why did you leave?

As I said in an earlier post, I've worked in the public sector too, and in one of the posts I had so little to do that I was bored out of my mind. I work much harder now, in a small business, and for less money, but that was my choice. I prefer that, I find my day goes quicker, its more satisfying etc, but by that token, I can't now complain that I work harder than my ex colleagues, and for less money - it was my choice!

Golden_Anemone

Snoozle wrote: »

But if the civil service was such an easy ride, why did you leave?

Drew has just blown his cover - the post I've copied below makes clear he was a casual AA in one of the Private Offices. Casuals are let go at 51 weeks so they don't earn the rights of full-time employees. Many go on to succeed in applications for permanent employment but they tend to be the more literate ones.

drew2k9 wrote: »

so you are saying an entry level civil servant and an entry level policeman/woman should be paid the same?

i think nurses fireservice police etc all in the emergency services should be paid the same wage as they are people who save lives etc, but civil servants deserve the pay they are on and definately do not deserve bonuses or pay rises, they do the same kind of work i do, only my work here is a lot harder than my nics times, and i got paid a lot more for the privilage of less work more holidays and working with people who didnt give a stuff. i would also mention i was in one of the busiest offices as i was working directly for a minister (undisclosed)

What strikes me as hilarious is his assertion that he worked in one of the busiest offices in the NICS because he worked directly for a minister. :rotfl:Why on earth would he think that working for a Minister here was busier that working in a public facing office such as a Jobs and Benefits or Motor Tax office? It is universally acknowledged among the Civil Servants that I've worked with over the last 20 years that the busiest and most stressful roles (and most rewarding at times too I have to add from experience) are those where direct contact with the general public is involved.

And I didn't read 36square's post as saying that entry level Civil Servants should be paid the same as the police, nothing like it. They compared the lack of perceived public criticism which similar levels of sickness absence attracts in comparison to that in the NICS.

And I have to agree with 36square. A close friend is a teacher in a local voluntary grammar school and a member of staff there has on 3 occasions in the last 2 years been sick for 6 months and returned to work as soon as her pay was reduced to half pay, worked anything from a couple of days to a few months and then gone straight off sick again on full pay for a further 6 months. :eek: This just couldn't happen in the civil service as they operate on a rolling year so pay would go down to half pay almost immediately. And it is no easier for a school to sack a teacher who malingers like this than it is for the NICS - employment laws apply to everyone.

36square

drew2k9 wrote: »

so you are saying an entry level civil servant and an entry level policeman/woman should be paid the same?

No, I'm not saying that but when you see the huge number of applications for the PSNI it suggests to me that the police might just be paid more than is necessary.

drew2k9

the first bit you got wrong was stating that i was a casual aa in a private office, no i was a permanent full time AO who was working in an office similar to a private office, but not a private office, we dealt directly with the minister and my job included coalating his/her papers for each and every meeting of the executive and the relevant committies related to our department, i also was in charge of allocation of workloads to the eo1/eo2/so levels, as this was part of the role, i allocated the work, they did it (strange system i know, and i hated having to allocate work to more "senior" staff)

i was offered a promotion to EO2 just before i left (after 9 months) but i had to leave as i hated the job and had one of the worst managers in the whole NICS, who i contacted the welfare and personnell departments about, and apparently my manager "was known for this". many of the people in my office worked very hard for their money, but others got away with murder, but not me, my manager took a huff if you sneezed the wrong way, and it wasnt just me they were unfair to, it was even staff more senior than them, who seemed to almost accept it due to how assertive they could be to us.

the civil service is a joke and a waste of taxpayer money, it needs revamped on so many levels. i agree that the sick thing is slowly starting to get better, but there are still many people i know who if they go over the allocated sick days, their managers will let them take it as holidays or even worse, flexi.

maybe its just the bad experience i had in the civil service, and the fact that everyone i know who works in the nics has had the same bad experiences as me, or gets away with murder, that i have such a low opinion of it and its policies regarding pay rises for employees getting more than they already deserve, but i am entitled to my opinion, and it is solely based on my experience rather than, "what ive heard" as most other civil service bashers justify themselves.

Snoozle

drew2k9 wrote: »

i was offered a promotion to EO2 just before i left (after 9 months) but i had to leave as i hated the job and had one of the worst managers in the whole NICS, who i contacted the welfare and personnell departments about, and apparently my manager "was known for this". many of the people in my office worked very hard for their money, but others got away with murder, but not me, my manager took a huff if you sneezed the wrong way, and it wasnt just me they were unfair to, it was even staff more senior than them, who seemed to almost accept it due to how assertive they could be to us.

This is what confuses me about your posts. By the sounds of it you had a miserable time, overworked, poor management etc, which is far from an easy ride. But then at the same time you are saying that its a joke and people get away with poor attendance, not pulling their weight etc. But it can't really be both.

Yes, there will be slackers, who get away with poor timekeeping, poor attendance, passing other people's work off as their own, but sadly this happens in most places, and the larger the organisation, the harder it is to weed them out - in my experience this happens just as much in large private companies as the civil service, although much less so in smaller companies, as they just can't allow it to happen.

So maybe the inefficiencies you are talking about, and which I think most people accept exist, are not so much a symptom of civil servants being poor workers with bad attitudes, but a symptom of what happens when an organisation is so huge that those at the top have no real idea of what those at the bottom are doing.

Golden_Anemone

Apologies for wrongly assuming what your position was Drew but it was the most logical conclusion from what you've said.

I just don't understand though why you didn't attempt to get a transfer to a different post - this can take time but is usually possible especially where Personnel and Staff Welfare branch are aware of poor management. Refusing a promotion and leaving for a job which pays less seems a drastic step to have taken in the circumstances.

However, I hope you're happy where you are now and have put that terrible experience behind you. :A

drew2k9

i think i am still slightly bitter about my experience (could you tell...)

but i think my main issue came with how hard i had it in my post, but that everyone else i talkto seems to have the easiest ride ever in their posts at the same level.

i guess thats why i still come across a bit sceptical of the NICS and its employees, but i do know that it isnt everybody, but its the minority who get away with so much that gives the bad reputation, and it will take a lot of change to alter the opinions of people like me who have had the experiences i had.

also the reason i turned down the promotion was because it was a job in my office, with the same manager, and the girl who was previously in the job left due to stress, and i didnt want the experience i was having to get worse. could have done with the money but id rather have my mental health intact.

also the job im in now has brilliant opportunities to move up and get trained, we constantly do assessments and the company will pay for me to do diplomas and degrees when i have been there long enough, they are willing to spend money on employees to make more money from their higher qualifications, if that makes sense. and i have the best manager ever, the exact opposite of the manager i had in NICS, so unless i was offered a huge change in pay, i wouldnt leave here!

Bigcammy

36square wrote: »

No, I'm not saying that but when you see the huge number of applications for the PSNI it suggests to me that the police might just be paid more than is necessary.

Sorry, but maybe you should have a chat with Constable Heffron's family who are trying to come to terms with his horrific injuries, or the PSNI officers who just about managed to get people evacuated in Newry before the bomb went off. It's a risky job at the best of times for Police Officers in a force with no local terrorism issues, let alone the PSNI and what they have to contend with.

36square

Bigcammy wrote: »

Sorry, but maybe you should have a chat with Constable Heffron's family who are trying to come to terms with his horrific injuries, or the PSNI officers who just about managed to get people evacuated in Newry before the bomb went off. It's a risky job at the best of times for Police Officers in a force with no local terrorism issues, let alone the PSNI and what they have to contend with.

I sincerely hope that Const Heffron is generously compensated for what he has suffered. However, that is no justification for overpaying the thousands of others who are never going to sustain such horrific injuries. In fact you're probably just as likely to be killed or badly injured on a building site.
It is definitely not "a risky job at the best of times".