10 things you could do to become more green and ethical

Ken68

Gone over to free range eggs, can't see anything wrongdoing with cheese and milk, and don't eat meat because it's expensive and greasy, and don't eat fish because of the way it's caught. Growing veg and foraging is cheap or free. Known a few vegans, they always look white.

CopperPlate_2

I think that it should be a free choice for everyone - eat meat, dairy or vegetables. The choice is your own. I don't think it should be a choice that is made through guilt or - with respect justin138 - through an implied message that to not want to try it is wrong. Yes, there are issues with the provenance of some our meat industry products, but this is something the consumer can hope to change through purchasing pressure.

I have to say that I don't agree with inflicting my own choices on my children or animals. I'd be interested to hear where it advises feeding cats vegetarian food. My understanding was that cats were, by nature, meat eating exclusively, although I'd stand corrected.

Jo138

I agree with you Copperplate that cats ARE meat-eating creatures. The problem is that meat-eating is causing a lot of problems environmentally for both the planet AND for other humans, as well as the obvious one of animal welfare.

I really don't wish to give facts and figures here, but if you do some research on the reasons why, then perhaps you will understand my stance. I'm not advocating that everyone shouldn't have a choice, I'm saying that one day the choice may have to be made for them; or it could even be too late.

The planet we live on is far more important than our "right" to decimate it.

I hope this puts it in perspective for you.

CopperPlate_2

Jo138 wrote:

I agree with you Copperplate that cats ARE meat-eating creatures. The problem is that meat-eating is causing a lot of problems environmentally for both the planet AND for other humans, as well as the obvious one of animal welfare.

I really don't wish to give facts and figures here, but if you do some research on the reasons why, then perhaps you will understand my stance. I'm not advocating that everyone shouldn't have a choice, I'm saying that one day the choice may have to be made for them; or it could even be too late.

The planet we live on is far more important than our "right" to decimate it.

I hope this puts it in perspective for you.

Again, with the greatest of respect to your own beliefs and life choices, there are many things in this world that are causing problems for the world environment and other humans. I think the overuse of chemicals in our everday lives, our laissez faire attitude to recycling and responsibility for future generations with regard to pollution, ethical trading, human rights abuses, drugs pervading society and the "want something for nothing, and want it now" culture being fostered, is probably more damaging to the world than eating meat. I'm sorry, I haven't done research on this subject - I find publications which advocate veganism, and at times even vegetarianism, to be extremely biased and almost hysterical in denigrating the alternatives. The latest edition of the Ecologist is a case in point - the usual leaflets within it advocating why not to drink milk, I found offensive and not necessarily in the spirit of the publication.

Yes, overfarming and the use of the various "medicines" or antibiotics has a detrimental effect on the human species and the world ecology, however, I don't think that this is a reason to stop consuming meat. More that good farming practices should be introduced and adhered to. The human race has eaten meat in one form or another since he/she was able to hunt.

I'm not intending to offend anyone who is vegan or vegetarian - the benefits of a reduced meat diet are well documented, however, eating meat is not decimating the planet singularly. It may be an additional factor, however, I would counter that it is an impossible dream to think that the world population will reduce or cease consumption of meat and that this will somehow solve the environmental damage being caused just now.

dolly_day_dream

Ken68 wrote:

Known a few vegans, they always look white.

Sorry Ken but after being vegan for over 2 years I don't look ill. Quite the opposite - people comment on how well I look and I certainly have more energy than before. To be fair I am at the stage in my life when I benefit from more soya in my diet and I could reasonably be described as a very voluptous vegan:o

I am the only vegan in my family although there are vegetarians as well. I am not trying to convert anyone cos your food is such a personal thing and I will happily cook meat for visitors to my house but they always end up eating my dishes:rolleyes:

I agree that some of the literature does go over the top and that puts people off - it certainly wouldn't lure me to the cause. My view is that I live my way for a variety of reasons, one of which is to help the rest of the world towards food equality. If I can persuade people to eat a few vegan meals after eating at my house then great but willing converts are better than conscripts.

Jo138

Check this out: http://www.ecofoot.org/

Try putting in 'vegan' in the first box, and see what the results are (obviously filling in the other boxes as you please), then try it again putting 'often eat meat' and see what the results are.

I think you'll be surprised, and no doubt wonder WHY it's so.... maybe you could do some homework on the subject. Come to your own conclusions, but at least please do so with an open mind. Veganism seems to be such an argumentative subject, dunno why really - it's only a SMALL change in lifestyle.

TBH I couldn't care less what you eat. But I think YOUR children and grandchildren will care about what's happened to this planet. Like I said earlier "'I've no offspring to worry about when this world goes t!tsup'".

I've been vegan for 35 years, and no-one has EVER told me I look 'pale' - like Dolly, I'm quite the opposite

Ken68

Often wondered how little protein,the most expensive part of a diet, a human needs. Lots of info on calories.
Frances Moore Lappe (or maybe Moore Lappe) 'Death of a Small Planet', is a darned good read, spoilt by some silly recipes at the end.
And so agree that vegans have abundant energy.

black-saturn

Give up your car. I gave mine up 6 years ago and I've never looked back.

Jo138

Ken, if you're concerned about the health aspects, then I can't advise you (MSE guidelines). I can say that over the years I have studied nutrition and have come to the conclusion that vegans are often better fed (anyone who insists on just eating vegeburger & chips with processed peas obviously isn't), and have more energy.

The adult recommended daily allowance for protein is 0.8 g/kg body weight, which represents less than 10 percent of caloric intake (assuming average energy requirements) (from http://www.talksoy.com/Health/tProtein.htm). I did try to find the WHO recommended intake, but failed, and this was the best one I came up with (disregarding vegan society blurb).

(p.s to Black-Saturn - I've never driven a car or motorbike, but I do admit to being in a few over the years)

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule

CopperPlate wrote:

I think the overuse of chemicals in our everday lives, our laissez faire attitude to recycling and responsibility for future generations with regard to pollution, ethical trading, human rights abuses, drugs pervading society and the "want something for nothing, and want it now" culture being fostered, is probably more damaging to the world than eating meat.

I agree, all together they cause more damage than eating meat to the world. Individually most of them are on a level with animal farming. (well, all except for the 'drugs pervading society' line).

But because other things are damaging, does that mean we shouldn't try to cure any of them?

Racism and bigotry cause huge problems in the world, but do we ignore it because "chemicals are more of a problem"? Of course not - we try to fix ALL of the worlds problems.