BT Pension Index Linking

Ripoff_2

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Weren't BT employees TUPEd into the private sector? Surely that means that you've got to accept the (usually) good with the (occasionally) bad bits of the deal.

Hi Old Slaphead, I trust you are OK.

The answer to your question is no we were not TUPEd. Basically the company was sold by a share issue in 1984 and therefore ALL terms and conditions were transfered to the new company with the share issue being the privatisation part. Thus we all kept our public sector pension terms, hours and pay etc nothing changed on change over.

However over time, some 27 years we had to accept changes to our terms and conditions, pay, hours etc being a private sector company. As of 2009 our pension was also changed to a career average and increased retirement to 65 from 60 plus increased contributions but we were supposed to have retained RPI indexing.

In the 2009 pension review documentation it actually states that RPI indexing is guaranteed but because the trust deed refers to the Gvmt uprating we are being hit by the RPI to CPI change. A legacy from the 1984 sell off where our pension refers to the public sector, it appears no one picked up on this and even as late as 2010 BT were still quoting RPI indexing when in fact it was indexing based on the Gvmt uprating. For 38 years BT has quoted RPI indexing and BT pensions have been RPI indexed.

We have had all the trials and tribulations of being in the Private sector and are now having our pension reduced as though we are in the public sector. Hence BT pensioners have been hit twice, all the changes of the 2009 pension review and changes due to being in the private sector and then on top of that the extra loss with the CPI change......injustice comes to mind and fairness but this Gvmt have applied a broad brush to the public sector and hit very hard indeed, BT, BA and many ex-public sector pensions at the same time with CPI indexing.

ermine

Ripoff spake thusly and ad some length

Ripoff wrote: »

This issue is to do with what is right and what is wrong.

...shedload of grizzling excised...

Regarding investing in my future. Being retired I can't actually now invest in my future. I believed I had already done that whilst working and paying for an RPI indexed linked pension,

Funny old game, your reasoning. Makes me think of my Dad, who worked as a maintenance fitter, a blue collar job that doesn't exist any more. He has a final salary pension, been drawing it for over 20 years.

Unlike you, he took the line that the world looks after those that look after themselves, so while he was working he invested in AVCs, shares, took out his company sharesaves, educated himself into investment strategies even back in the days you had to futz about with paper certificates and whatnot.

He probably never earned as much as you did at BT, in real terms. But he got three things right. One is the value of diversification - avoid depending on any one income stream in life if you can. The second is never trust the government. The last is that the world looks after those that look after themselves.

I was surprised to hear recently that annual dividends are now more than his pension income. So I query why you can't invest in your future. He does, and let's face it, he is getting on in years now.

You're putting a lot of energy into this campaign. If it gives meaning to your life or it stops you getting bored, great. But that energy couod be a lot more effective if used to improve your current situation now.

You've taken that shaft from the government. So did we all from Gordon Brown, who did a lot more damage to pensions than this move. Governments are like that. If we are so stupid as to elect governments that tell us that we can have it all, even when there isn't enough money to have it all, then they will occasionally have to resort to stealing some of the largesse back from us. You, sir, being retired, are no spring chicken so I take it you have observed this during your long life. It's what governments do. They have to do it, to deliver their unfunded promises elsewhere. All the petitioning in the world ain't gonna change that. But if it makes your feel better, good luck to you. Personally, I'll take after my Dad. I love stock market crashes. It makes income so much cheaper to buy

Ripoff_2

ermine wrote: »

Ripoff spake thusly and ad some length



Funny old game, your reasoning. Makes me think of my Dad, who worked as a maintenance fitter, a blue collar job that doesn't exist any more. He has a final salary pension, been drawing it for over 20 years. etc etc etc

Oh trust me I am looking after myself, thanks, I just do not like being robbed. I trust neither do you, it’s just not right is it?

Theft is theft and it's still theft when it's the Government doing the thieving. It doesn't make it right or acceptable just because it's the Government.

So, yes I fight when I am being robbed, and I make no apologies for that.

Ripoff_2

TOXIC INFLATION WREAKING HAVOC ON OLDER PEOPLE

Inflation at twenty year high but inflation faced by over 50s even worse


Older people are the worst hit victims of soaring inflation with people in their 50s being affected by higher levels of inflation than the country as a whole. RPI Annual retail price index (RPI) inflation was 5.6% in September, up from 5.2% in August. Saga calculated that annual retail price index (RPI) for the over 50s inSeptember was as follows:

• 50-64: 6.6% (up from 5.8% in August)

• 65-74: 6.4% (up from 5.5% in August)

• 75 and over: 6.5% (up from 5.3% in August)

“Commenting on The Saga Price Indices, Dr Ros Altmann, Director General Saga said: “The Government is ignoring the impact of inflation on older people. “We are deeply concerned. Surging inflation and sinking savings income are damaging growth by hitting older generations who have cut their spending. “Anyone who has bought an annuity is seeing their buying power erode month after month while policy makers worry about borrowers and banks.

“This is not a recipe for economic recovery.”

Please Sign the e-petition if you have not already done so, and spread the word. [URL="mhtml:{6EF71D81-FCE8-447B-947D-380BDD9A9C3B}mid://00000056/!x-usc:http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1535"]http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1535[/URL]

Ripoff_2

Rally at the Royal Courts of Justice London on 25th October until 10:30am when the judges start sitting, to support the Judicial RPI Review. If you can be there then please attend to show support, but please spread the word.

Ripoff_2

The following link shows the full Judicial Review court dealings in great detail and is well worth a read. May I suggest you read the last days deliberations. http://www.glcoord.org/
There are points in there that I believe does show the Gvmt did put the cart before the horse and then tried to justify doing so. See what you think?


Don't forget to SPREAD THE WORD and get people to sign the E-petition, now nearly over 76k, just that final push please.

JohnB47

Regarding the recent rumours that the government may renege on using the full September CPI figure to uprate pensions (and benefits) in April next year, does anyone have a view on whether this would effect the BT pension uprating?

In other words, does the BT scheme say that BT pensions will be uprated in April based on the previous Septembers 'government preferred' index (CPI), or does it say that BT is bound to apply whatever uprading figure the government chooses (which could mean that BT could be 'allowed' to use, say, an average of the CPI figures for the year to Sept 2011, if that's what the government decides to use for state pensions and benefits).

Cheers.

ExBT_Bob

Sadly not. The BTPS Section B Trust Deed says:

10.2 Pension Increases

Any pension in payment will be increased from time to time in accordance with:

* the Pension (Increase) Act 1971, and
* Sections 59 and 59A of the Social Security Pensions Act 1975

as if the pension was payable under the Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme 1974 (and any amendment or replacement of that scheme).

(Above also applies to deferred pensions)

Like you I'm very concerned!

ExBT_Bob

Treasury Details of Public Service pension increases refers to September to September CPI:
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/tax_pensions_increases.htm

The other Acts mentioned above can be found at:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/

Ripoff_2

Summary of the Judges reasons can be found here. You will see that one of the three judges has raised an issue that there may well be a case to answer and thus the appeal has been granted I believe.



http://www.nfop.org.uk/news/docs/2011/Summary report of Judgment.pdf



nfop.org.uk/news/docs/2011/Summary%20report%20of%20Judgment.pdf full link if you have trouble, just cut and paste into your browser