BT Pension Index Linking

ExBT_Bob

Just got statement from the BT Pension Scheme trusstees. It details the changes regarding increases now linked to CPI and says that 'it cannot pay above CPI' without permission from BT'...:mad:

Goldwing1

AGM time.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/8633097/BT-Group-pensioners-to-question-CPI-switch-at-AGM.html

Ripoff_2

The following is from a report in the 'Daily Telegraph' this evening entitled 'Public Sector Pensions: high earners face bigger rise in contributions' in which it appears that the Coalition have reconsidered the percentage increases to be met by scheme members.

The TUC said it had agreed to extend the negotiations, adding, 'Further talks will take place centrally, and individual unions will be actively considering also participating in scheme level talks in order to fully explore all the issues and to enable unions and their members to reach a judgement on whether agreement is possible or whether more unions will enter into dispute and plan industrial action.'

But here is the interesting bit: The TUC said it was clear, in agreeing to continue negotiations, that unions have not agreed to or accepted any of the Government's objectives or the change in pension indexation from RPI to CPI inflation.

I detect a bit of movement here suggesting that the Government realises that it cannot afford further Public Sector Strikes and may be willing to reach a compromise position. We'll have to wait and see!

Ripoff_2

According to TPAS the pension advisory service. Even though BT and the Trustees have consistently used RPI indexing in their documentation and used the following statement in the pension review documentation as late as April 2009, I Quote ""Section B pensions are guaranteed to increase each year in line with the Retail Prices Index (RPI)" The onus is on US to prove that we suffer a financial loss when taking our pensions, (especially if you took it early) by them using CPI. The problem here is that no one knows what CPI will be in the future, we only know what it has been in the past. We know that there is a built in difference between CPI and RPI of 0.4% to 0.8% year on year.

Are there any clever BT people or pension people out there that can offer any advice how to show that when we took our pension based on what we believed and in fact had been told would be RPI that we are now going to suffer a loss. We had options to take on taking a greater pension that didn't index for part of it but did for the other part or we could take larger lump sums and a smaller pension.

The question therefore is can anyone show the implications of doing this compared with the difference between CPI and RPI? I am sure there are some clever people that can assist us all here. Basically we have to show we have suffered financially it would appear and prove it...........so much for morals, fairness and natural justice! They can reduce our pension by 15% to 20% over time, boast about their savings to the city and WE have to prove that they are reducing our pension and that RPI was a factor when taking our pension. IT STINKS!

Ripoff_2

I was wondering exactly what a BT average pension actually was and I have finally found out from the Trustees. In 2010 the average based over all the schemes is £8452, so this is hardly a GOLD Plated pension is it. The public sector average is £9908 based on the majority of the PS. Better I would suspect than many in the pure DC private sector schemes, who have been treated very badly indeed, which I believe now has an average of between £5k to £7k.

Many people in BT and the private sector are on much less than the average. If this average is taken as the base then as the CPI indexation takes effect over time, the average will fall and many BT pensioners will fall into the poverty bracket I suspect. What an indictment of Government policy, push pensioners down and down and down until they can't afford to live.

Andy_L

Ripoff wrote: »

I was wondering exactly what a BT average pension actually was and I have finally found out from the Trustees. In 2010 the average based over all the schemes is £8452, so this is hardly a GOLD Plated pension is it. The public sector average is £9908 based on the majority of the PS.

The "average [FS] pension" amount is a meaningless number unless combined with the average length of service.

Ripoff_2

Andy_L wrote: »

The "average [FS] pension" amount is a meaningless number unless combined with the average length of service.

I agree but it was the best I could get. I assume this average is the complete avearge based on different length of services. So the total payout divided by the number of payees I would think. It's very broad brush but it gives a sort of idea of where the figures lie. Not perfect I know. What would be good to get would be the average per scheme by length of service and then that would be meaningful.

Ripoff_2

ALL, the NFOP Judicial Review court hearing will be on October 25th to 27th. A date to mark in your diaries!

The hearing is in London at the High Court and is open to the public.

ExBT_Bob

New government e-petions site now up. Sorry I can't post the link but search e-petitions gov uk

What are e-petitions?

e-petitions is an easy way for you to influence government policy in the UK. You can create an e-petition about anything that the government is responsible for and if it gets at least 100,000 signatures, it will be eligible for debate in the House of Commons.

The BT Pension Scheme has 90,000 deferred members and 190,000 pensioners ALL OF WHOM are now affected by this robbery of already accrued benefits!

Ripoff_2

This is a heads up that today an epetition at [URL="mhtml:{6EF71D81-FCE8-447B-947D-380BDD9A9C3B}mid://00000176/!x-usc:http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/"]http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/[/URL] under DWP, has been entered to restore RPI it covers all pensioners and thus will need your support as it applies to BT pensioners as well. The petition should go live in 7 days once it has been accepted. If it isn't for any reason we will try again. Check after the 12th August to see if it is available. You should be able to find it by searching "Restore RPI" or looking under DWP. We need well over 100k signatures so it's over to you!

As Ex BT Bob says "The BT Pension Scheme has 90,000 deferred members and 190,000 pensioners ALL OF WHOM are now affected by this robbery of already accrued benefits!" I urge you ALL to support the petition.

I was speaking via twitter to a Trustee of another scheme the other day and he was concerned why BT pensioners had not been giving their Trustees a hard time like the BA pension members had and were doing so vigorously. I didn't have a real reason other than I thought BT pensioners were taking action but needed to get better organised. The epetition will help but it is not the full answer. BT pensioners need, I think, to bombard their Trustees with letters of complaint about the last CPI increase and do that before the next uprating is set in September for next year, if you haven't already done so. So come on BT pensioners "Get organised and FIGHT for your future"