Worst Apple products of all time.

Marty_J

poppy10 wrote: »

Let me google that for you:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=quicktime+bloated+-tunes


Start with the size of the installer itself - a heavyweight 31MB, compared to just 6.9 for MPC (my player of choice) or 18MB for VLC (which can play anything you throw at it)

Then add the fact that it automatically takes over all your media file associations without asking - meaning that even if you only installed it to play those (now thankfully rare) quicktime movies on the net, you will find that it starts popping up each time you want to play an .avi, .mp3, even a .jpg for god's sake.

Add in the automatic installation of "Apple Software Update" (without your permission or giving you a choice) - which automagically installs Safari and iTunes when it runs. iTunes itself automatically installs a heapload of crapware, including Bonjour, MobileMe, AppleMobileDeviceService, iTunesHelper, iPodService etc, all of which are set to start automatically when you boot your computer, whether you want them to or not.

Plus, and worst of all, QT actually takes around ten seconds to load up on my superfast rig (as opposed to QT lite, a custom build with all the crapware stripped out, which loads instantly).

This automatically taking over your computer might be fine for Apple users, who are expected to let Apple take charge and not to actually do anything with their computers themselves in case they hurt themselves; but most PC users are used to having a little more control over their own system.

Come now, 31 MB instead of 18? What is this, 1997? And once installed, VLC is 61 MB on my Mac, and QuickTime X is 22MB.

And I was under the impression that QuickTime asks you what file associations it should have when you install it? It certainly used to; doesn't it any more?

QuickTime can play any media file instantly on my 3 year old Mac with the press of the space bar.

Perhaps you're using the wrong operating system?

Scrilla

poppy10 wrote: »

Then add the fact that it automatically takes over all your media file associations without asking - meaning that even if you only installed it to play those (now thankfully rare) quicktime movies on the net, you will find that it starts popping up each time you want to play an .avi, .mp3, even a .jpg for god's sake.

Marty_J wrote: »

And I was under the impression that QuickTime asks you what file associations it should have when you install it? It certainly used to; doesn't it any more?

It did when I installed Windows 7 last year along with other pieces of software.

What annoyed me was how the old Windows Media player didn't even give you a choice (on both Mac and Windows) of what file associations to make with the programs. Mercifully, WMV is a dying format and WMP (in it's Vista and W7 incarnations) now give you the choice.

Maybe the old Quicktime did the same, but it hasn't since about XP.

poppy10 wrote: »

Add in the automatic installation of "Apple Software Update" (without your permission or giving you a choice)

Having an extra piece of software you didn't ask for installed is an annoyance I agree. You have the option of uninstalling the program altogether, albeit after it has already been installed without your permission(ish). However, most programs now just have automatic updating built into their software. The counter-arguement is, of course, the built in software updates only (on the whole) update the software it is asked to, not to advertise other Apple software...

poppy10 wrote: »

which automagically installs Safari and iTunes when it runs.

For completeness, we should note checkboxes were next to the each update option. So if you clicked update without unchecking anything, of course it would install - nothing magic about it. Apple later made a distinction between 'updating current software' and 'new software available, but not currently installed'.

poppy10 wrote: »

iTunes itself automatically installs a heapload of crapware, including Bonjour, MobileMe, AppleMobileDeviceService, iTunesHelper, iPodService etc, all of which are set to start automatically when you boot your computer, whether you want them to or not.

Does 3 extra startup services (in your link) justify saying a "heapload of crapware"? Besides, they load and sit there taking up a whole few kb's of memory. Adobe sits there, whether I am pdf-ing (or otherwise e.g. using Version Cue) or not. BitLocker sits there whether I have an encrypted drive attached or not. Windows Time sits there, whether I ... need my time updating or not.

They all come to life when it detects a process it needs to respond to. As someone who uses all those services, I'm glad it's there. I do agree iTunes is now bloatware, but no other program has everything iTunes has. SongBird would be my second choice, but it would mean opening up two programs to manage my (entertainment) media needs. Apple could learn a thing or two from SongBird.

Play a song using "program_name". Transfer files to media player using "program_name". Buy songs using "program_name". Stream and share media using "program_name". ... I would much prefer one program to do it all. The speed of iTunes is an issue, as is the flakeyness of some of it's features.

poppy10 wrote: »

Plus, and worst of all, QT actually takes around ten seconds to load up on my superfast rig

Quick, get an ambulance! 10!? Seconds!?! that has to be the worst thing to have ever happened on a computer!

Apple's optimisation of software on Windows is poor to say the least. Microsoft's optimisation of software on the Mac feels non-existant at times. It's bad when I can run Windows 7 under virtualisation (i.e. when Mac OS is running), run (Windows) Office 2007 and have it run faster than (Mac) Office 2008 (and with more features). The only thing Microsoft has working as efficiently on a Mac as on a Windows PC is... Windows . (The thanks for this on the whole go to the driver manufacturers with some additional help from Apple.)

poppy10 wrote: »

This automatically taking over your computer might be fine for Apple users, who are expected to let Apple take charge and not to actually do anything with their computers themselves in case they hurt themselves; but most PC users are used to having a little more control over their own system.

Which is of course why Windows has setup assistants galore, so Windows users can take charge!! With Apple, the mantra does seem to direct towards "it just works", trying to ease the user experience instead. Everyone wants things to be easy to use, without having to waste time. Ubuntu is a good example, because some Linux users find Debian too hard to configure. I believe Mint is the current favourite for new users because it can be used "out-of-the-box" without having to install Wine and what have you. However, please do recognise the Mac users, like myself, who will use the command line, for example (but not specifically the typical case), instead of the GUI front end to configure things so it works the way I want it to; Just like I will recognise some Windows users will build their own computer and configure their own bios whilst others will struggle to connect to the internet using setup assistants.

Eric_Pisch wrote: »

1) Itunes, I dont need a giant bloatware app just so that I can copy n paste files over like any normal device, I dont want all the background apps, I don't want my device locked exclusively to one computer >.<, I want to be able to get my files back of my device on any computer, in fact Apple I don't want Itunes.

Drag and drop works within iTunes (not exactly copy and paste I know) and you can use it with multiple computers (limitedly) with one device.

Eric_Pisch wrote: »

Its totally unnecessary thou, there is ZERO reason why apple could not have said here is iTunes for those that want it and for those that don't just plug n play use it.

DRM would be the reason. Today however, I've no idea why Apple haven't allowed OS level drag and drop to transfer music onto their devices. Being unable to transfer files from an iPod onto a computer should be obvious, but I do wonder why you can't transfer back to the computer it is paired with.

{This wall of text was bought to you by someone who is trying to put off doing work. I would continue, but it would involve not doing more work, which I cannot realistically put off any longer. All opinions herein expressed by me are ... by me and reflect my views at this time. Thanks for the Peach fix.}

poppy10_2

Marty_J wrote: »

once installed, VLC is 61 MB on my Mac, and QuickTime X is 22MB.

From experience I know it's pointless trying to have a reasoned debate with you, but let me answer this point. Quicktime has an apparent installed footprint of "only" 22MB on your mac because large portions of quicktime are deeply integrated into Mac OSX as a core operating system component. This also explains why it is much snappier on the mac than on windows, where it does not have the same deep system integration.

The situation is similar to that of Internet Explorer which was tightly integrated into Windows XP - it loaded almost instantly (compared to firefox or other browsers which took a few seconds to load), because core components of IE were loaded as part of the XP boot process, with no way to turn this off. Essentially IE was a core part of XP, and required very little further resources to run. This also explains why Windows Media Player 11 for XP is only a 25MB download, whereas WMP 12 for Windows 7N (which has the media player system integration ripped out) is a hideous 563MB - it has to install that much crap to re-create all the system components.
Nowadays the monopoly rules have forced Microsoft to allow complete removal of the entire IE and WMP frameworks from the system (for the latest Windows versions), rather than just the applications themselves. At this time Apple do not offer a way to remove the entire Quicktime framework from OSX - it just wouldn't function without it, just as XP could not have IE or WMP removed without breaking the whole OS. It is a core component of OSX, and the back-end providing all media functions for the operating system, whether the QT application itself is loaded or not.

And I was under the impression that QuickTime asks you what file associations it should have when you install it? It certainly used to; doesn't it any more?

Just installed in a sandbox and it doesn't ask. You can change the associations manually yourself once it is installed.

QuickTime can play any media file instantly on my 3 year old Mac with the press of the space bar. Perhaps you're using the wrong operating system?

As I said, I'm not doubting that QT and even iTunes run well on macs - I've used them myself on OSX and they are very swish indeed. But the Windows versions certainly qualify as among the worst products Apple has ever shipped - bloated, slow and unusable.

Come now, 31 MB instead of 18? What is this, 1997?

Quick, get an ambulance! 10!? Seconds!?! that has to be the worst thing to have ever happened on a computer!

Does 3 extra startup services (in your link) justify saying a "heapload of crapware"? Besides, they load and sit there taking up a whole few kb's of memory

I say QT/iT is bloatware. You say it isn't bloatware. I show you exactly how and why it is bloatware. You say bloating doesn't matter.
Can't win. This is why I'm the idiot for trying to debate with devout apple worshippers.

Marty_J

Poppy, I'm afraid I don't have much interest in getting into a p*ssing contest with you.

I thought some things belonged on the list (and I've thought of another - the little scroll ball on Apple's Mighty Mouse), and you thought some things belonged on the list. Why this makes me a "devout apple worshipper" and you the final arbiter all of reason and logic, I find myself at a loss to say.

edgex

AppleTV

:rotfl:

Scrilla

poppy10 wrote: »

Just installed in a sandbox and it doesn't ask. You can change the associations manually yourself once it is installed.

I stand corrected, thanks. Thinking about it now, the main Windows convention is to give you association options during install and the Mac convention is to assume you are installing the program to use it and so changes the associations automatically and you manually change afterwards.

("installing the program to use it" - I can't find a way to word this without sounding 'off'.)

poppy10 wrote: »

Can't win. This is why I'm the idiot for trying to debate with devout apple worshippers.

You've quoted me so I'll respond. My issue was with your ascertain of "a heapload of crapware". I disagree with it being "crapware", but I do agree with the bloat as I said in my post.

The tone of parts of my post was intended to mimic the "oh my gosh" quality of your post. I'm open to the fact I misinterpreted your tone, as you may have misinterpreted mine; I agreed with a number of your points. I did dissect your post, hence my closing paragraph to reflect the lighthearted nature I intended the post to be taken.

I would probably say Marty J and I would be people you perceive as "devout Apple worshippers" in this thread. No one called you an idiot. Both of us "devout Apple worshippers" have different points of view. There's no winning or losing. It's a difference of opinion.