Benefits and the deficit: what would you cut?

baileysbattlebus

MrsE wrote: »

When did Blair get in & start the benefits bonanza for those on sick benefits?
The same time as an explosion in claimants perhaps?

Or since the mass reorgisation of business in the 1980s and 1990s - where people lost job security - more and more work and pressure placed on people etc - and the recognition of work place stressors and depressors.

I actually don't remember people being off work with stress/depressive illnesses and the likes until around then. But perhaps I just never noticed.

lemonjelly

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

Or since the mass reorgisation of business in the 1980s and 1990s - where people lost job security - more and more work and pressure placed on people etc - and the recognition of work place stressors and depressors.

I actually don't remember people being off work with stress/depressive illnesses and the likes until around then. But perhaps I just never noticed.

I thought it was generally accepted that in the 80's, rather than move loads of miners onto JSA, & therefore make the unemployment figures explode, thatcher shifted em all onto incapacity - or as it was then, invalidity benefit. The benefit rate was slightly higher, & initially the rules were quite lax.

The all work test devised then, did in fact relate to this. The physical test was devised around manual & physical labour elements which were most commonly (at the time) experienced by men. So things like back pain, mobility etc were used. At the same time, it was noted that the main illness affecting women was mental health/depression. So the mental health side was developed in line with this.

As time went by, Incapacity benefit replaced invalidity, allegedly being stricter. Incapacity is now being replaced by Employment support allowance - again, allegedly stricter.

The largest illness being treated by GP's in the UK today is depression.

I suspect back pain is still in the top 5.

I see a lot of incap claimants. It never ceases to amaze me how you can have couples, relatively young, both of whom are "depressed", never worked, & have 4+ kids in tow. Don't seem to be too depressed to make their own "entertainment" to me...I am also aware of 1 particular person who claims depression, but in reality is fine. Whenever she has an assessment, she goes in her nightclothes to highlight her depression.

Problem with the above type cases, is that the genuine cases (of which I also see many) are adversely affected.

If ESA goes according to plan, there will be a lot in for a shock coming off incapacity benefit.

StevieJ

michael1983l wrote: »

The 3 day working week was on the back of labour allowing mining strikes to cripple the nation

You must be even embarassing the Tories on here with your complete lack of historical knowledge and perspective

For the record Labour lost power in 1970, the three day week was Jan - March 1974,
Labour regained power Oct 1974.

ninky_2

i wonder if raising the state retirement age will lead to a lot more people on disability benefits. it seems quite likely to me that a fair few people will be unable to work due to sickness after the age of 60.

StevieJ

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

The study is interesting, although it only covers Scotland and Glasgow and not the whole of the UK - it is an insight into the changing face of incapacity benefit recipients. It covers those who have a good work history (payment claimants) and those who have none (credit only claimants).

A sign of our times perhaps?

Depression, probably as a result of 10 years rule of the grocers daughter :eek:

baileysbattlebus

lemonjelly wrote: »

I thought it was generally accepted that in the 80's, rather than move loads of miners onto JSA, & therefore make the unemployment figures explode, thatcher shifted em all onto incapacity - or as it was then, invalidity benefit. The benefit rate was slightly higher, & initially the rules were quite lax.

The all work test devised then, did in fact relate to this. The physical test was devised around manual & physical labour elements which were most commonly (at the time) experienced by men. So things like back pain, mobility etc were used. At the same time, it was noted that the main illness affecting women was mental health/depression. So the mental health side was developed in line with this.

As time went by, Incapacity benefit replaced invalidity, allegedly being stricter. Incapacity is now being replaced by Employment support allowance - again, allegedly stricter.

The largest illness being treated by GP's in the UK today is depression.

I suspect back pain is still in the top 5.

I see a lot of incap claimants. It never ceases to amaze me how you can have couples, relatively young, both of whom are "depressed", never worked, & have 4+ kids in tow. Don't seem to be too depressed to make their own "entertainment" to me...I am also aware of 1 particular person who claims depression, but in reality is fine. Whenever she has an assessment, she goes in her nightclothes to highlight her depression.

Problem with the above type cases, is that the genuine cases (of which I also see many) are adversely affected.

If ESA goes according to plan, there will be a lot in for a shock coming off incapacity benefit.

I know someone mid 40s never worked and if there is mention of work - she immediately gets absolutely hammered, does something stupid and gets sectioned for a few days. Problem solved.

There must be a lot of people like her - but my experience is limited. Though I did and do know genuine cases of stress & depression - myself being one - I went through quite a stressful period a few years ago (unmarried daughter and her unplanned pregnancy (who is now 8) - that and work just about did the trick) - and was off work for a few weeks.

But it's easy to fake if you want to - even easier than a "bad back" I would think.

The study I posted earliier is quite interesting regarding the people who have a strong work history and those who have none.

Rochdale_Pioneers

MrsE wrote: »

When did Blair get in & start the benefits bonanza for those on sick benefits?
The same time as an explosion in claimants perhaps?

Nope, the explosion was steady through the 80s and rocketed upwards in the early 90s recession.

And what benefits bonanza post Blair?

StevieJ

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Nope, the explosion was steady through the 80s and rocketed upwards in the early 90s recession.

And what benefits bonanza post Blair?

I thought that was the message from the graph posted by Bailysbattlebus on this very thread ?

MrsE_2

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

I know someone mid 40s never worked and if there is mention of work - she immediately gets absolutely hammered, does something stupid and gets sectioned for a few days. Problem solved.

There must be a lot of people like her - but my experience is limited. Though I did and do know genuine cases of stress & depression - myself being one - I went through quite a stressful period a few years ago (unmarried daughter and her unplanned pregnancy (who is now 8) - that and work just about did the trick) - and was off work for a few weeks.

But it's easy to fake if you want to - even easier than a "bad back" I would think.

The study I posted earliier is quite interesting regarding the people who have a strong work history and those who have none.

I know someone near 60 never really worked from having her first child late teens, went from single parents to sick benefits. The spouse of this person is the same. Two of their children are nearly 40 & 40, never really worked after having the first child (got the real benefits then), only the odd bit of cash in hand. The extended family are much the same, they are raising a third generation now mainly on benefits.