Please help re flat deposit

clutton_2

certainly legally, the landlord AND letting agent are both jointly and severally responsible for things like complying with the CORGI gas legislation.

i can see no reason why both parties are not also jointly responsible for the deposit issue.

WHATEVER the agent does - it is ultimately the landlord who is legally responsible if a tenancy goes haywire for any reason.

nrsql

I find it difficult to believe the agent can give the deposit to the landlord without agreement of both parties - otherwise why are they holding it?
The only reason would be in case the landlord owed them otherwise they could just pass it to the landlord at the beginning of the contract and get it back if the landlord wanted to return it at the end of the contract.

Also doesn't seem as though there was a usable contact address for the lanlord - the agent was responsible for the contract so they are on dubious ground there.

And picking and choosing as to when they might be involved seems to confirm that they aren't acting responsibly.
I wonder how close their connection with this landlord really is.

prudryden

clutton wrote:

certainly legally, the landlord AND letting agent are both jointly and severally responsible for things like complying with the CORGI gas legislation.

i can see no reason why both parties are not also jointly responsible for the deposit issue.

WHATEVER the agent does - it is ultimately the landlord who is legally responsible if a tenancy goes haywire for any reason.

Clut - Agree with paragraph 1 and 3. Paragraph 2 is not so clear. My contracts state that the deposit will be held by the LANDLORD'S AGENT. It further states that the Landlord may deduct from the Deposit whatever monies may be due to him from the Tenant by virtue of any breach by the Tenant of any of his obligations under this Agreement.
It isn't written in small print. The tenant reads this and if they concur, they agree by signing the agreement.

I'm starting to think that the deposit can only be retrieved from the Landlord, until such time as the Stakeholder laws come into effect.
The letting agent certainly has a duty to provide an address, but they will probably claim they provided what the Landlord gave them. The test will be to find out if they have a legal obligation to verify that address and to constantly monitor it for changes. I would really like to see how a court will rule on that.

franklee

prudryden wrote:

I'm starting to think that the deposit can only be retrieved from the Landlord, until such time as the Stakeholder laws come into effect.
The letting agent certainly has a duty to provide an address, but they will probably claim they provided what the Landlord gave them. The test will be to find out if they have a legal obligation to verify that address and to constantly monitor it for changes. I would really like to see how a court will rule on that.

For the agent it's the address issue that's key.

15th August - EL got receipt from dodgy decorator from the same address as the c/o address given for the landlady - the only address the agent had on file for the landlady.

Last 2 weeks of August and 1st week September - EL's letters sent to c/o address returned unopened as 'not called for'.

EL calls agent and is told they knew nothing about any other address and that one was the only one on file. They then asked EL to not contact them.

So it's not just a simple case of monitoring if the landlady moves. The agent was told the address they'd given out is invalid and did nothing about it.

Under the requirements of section 48 of the Landlord & Tenant Act 1987 rent is not lawfully due unless the tenant has been given, in writing, an address in England and Wales at which notices can be served.

The landladies moving is obviously a scam. How can she provide a receipt from the c/o address and then a week after stop calling for post there while coincidentally moving from her home address without setting up any redirection all at exactly the time as a tenant is chasing her for money? I bet the court will not be fooled.

What about tenants in the other properties the landlady lets through the agent, if they have the c/o address their rent is not collectible!

Since September EL has gone on to perusing the landlady at other addresses but but one of these has had letters returned unopened and EL isn't sure about the other that was provided by the letting agent in November. Even if this latest address turns out to be right, it's not acceptable for the agent to have withheld it for so long and they wouldn't have given it at all except for the court action.

The agent does have a case to answer, but over the address not over the return of the deposit which is for the landlady. It seems at least they have be colluding with the landlady to withhold the address and illegally collecting rent.

EagerLearner

Thanks everyone for the latest thoughts and comments. Seems as if Mr EL and I are still wading through quicksand on this.

I know everyone is behind us and you all want us to win, but I really think that the agent court thing is not worth going through now - my headaches have finally stopped (I think because I went out with friends on Friday and actually laughed and forgot about things).

Yes, we could go and teach them a lesson in court about being more responsible in terms of getting the correct address for landlords on file, but it probably won't get us any money - as someone previously mentioned, we'd still be left trying to chase the LA even if the judge awarded in our favour that they pay us back instead of landlady. I cannot predict what a judge will say (before Clutton raps my knuckles again...) BUT my instinct tells me the highest likelihood is they tell off the agent and tell us to continue pursuing the landlady because the contract protects the agent and states they are not stakeholders.

I just want this to end because I have seen how much my health has been affected and our energies in January to chase the real sleezebag here - landlady from hell.

Final overall votes please - keeping in mind this last para - and keeping in mind visiting times etc in an insane asylum...

nrsql

Think of the book and especially the film.
Much better if the judge appears twice - once for the duplicitous agent and finally for the evil landlady (with DA as witness).
Will attract a better actor for the part the more court cases you have.

Good luck whatever you decide.

tomstickland

Don't give up, it's a matter of principle. Whilst you continue to work on this you're making their life more difficult.
Someone in the system has direct contact info.

cwcw

I would help with your flat deposit but I'm not feeling generous enough today.

PS. Why is this seemingly innocuous looking thread the 3rd most viewed of the whole forum?

franklee

Sorry to be a bore about the address, but (obviously) you need the landladies address in order to continue your claim against her. So the point is are you now sure that the latest address from the agent is the correct current address for the landlady? If you are not asking the agent in court then you need an alternative plan to get it.

clutton_2

Surely the court will insist that the LA gives the court the LL address ?

EL - sorry, if your knuckles feel rapped, i certainly didn't intend to make you feel like that at all (::::)

All i meant in my earlier post was - if the tenant gives a LA the depost, and then the LA runs away, the landlord is still legally reponsible to return that deposit to the tenant, even tho the landlord has never had it.

EL - as i said before, maybe you need a complete break from all this - i am so glad the headaches have gone away now.

Only you can answer how you will feel if you decide to go no further.

Maybe you will not be able to make your mind up until you have had your wonderful holiday, and then come home again - a great hol puts troublesome things back into perspective.

Whether you carry on, or not, there are have over 35,000 views, and we have all learnt an enormous amount as a result of your tenacity - and i am sure many people will be grateful to you for having ammassed all this knowledge now on here.

i will not feel let down if you do decide to stop this, and choose to enjoy the challenge of your new self-employment - but the only important question in all this is - will you ?

good luck

xx

clutton