Is BT contravening its own code of practice?

Rockport

I received a bill which had 3 "charges". Those charges were as follows.

Late payment charge = £7.50
Reconnection charge due to outgoing calls barred = £11.50
Reconnection of line = £17.25

I paid my previous bill in full 15 days after the date on the original bill, I have the reciept to prove it. On the date I paid my bill I had not received a red reminder letter, I paid the bill with the original bill.

According to BT's own code of practice with regards to "charges" which is available online (although this website won't let me post the link as I'm a new user), the following quote is available for all to see.

"The above charge may be raised if BT has not received payment for the outstanding bill within 10 calendar days, (for Customers that are billed quarterly), or 7 calendar days, (for Customers that are billed monthly), of the date of the Red Reminder." (I'm billed quarterly)

Does anybody know how many days must elapse before a red reminder is issued by BT? I would assume that there is a standard number of days. I spoke to a customer adviser who sheepishly advised 14 days is the period of time that must elapse between the original bill and the red reminder. As I paid the bill 15 days after the due date of the original bill, it is impossible for me to have not paid the bill 10 days later than a red reminder (which I never recieved).

Apart from disputing this bill, is there any way I can report BT for not following correct procedure? This isn't the only issue I've had with BT and I may have grounds to take them to court for misuse of personal data. I have a log of all events that have occured, including the reciept of a red reminder asking for a bill to be paid before the due date of the original bill on a previous quarter ! I rang to question why I had recieved a red reminder asking for complete payment before the due payment date of the original bill and I was advised it was a computer error. Well I've had 5 to many computer errors over the last year for a wide range of issues, for this to be computer error...

Any advice regarding legality or just similar experiences from others will be appreciated.

Mark_In_Hampshire

The first issue is that companies seem to believe that payment is due from the bill date, so that entitles them to either back date the bills or sit on them for a week or so before sending them second class post.

The effect of that is the bill falling due for payment with a day or so of it arriving, which is almost logistically impossible.

I run my own business. If I did things this way, it would be a great way to make money. All I have to do is to put a late charge in my terms an conditions, and other charges too, then simply make sure that customers get their bills late in such a way that they cannot be paid on time and voila! I get extra money every single time.

Of course, then in time I would have no customers since they would all leave in disgust.

The other aspect to this is that companies such as BT are keen to bully you into providing them with open access to your bank account in the form of a direct debit mandate "take whatever you want whenever you want" with no safeguards for the customer.

Hence you're likely to be met with a patronising response from the company and also misguided and brainwashed people that the solution is to use direct debit.

In our case, our BT bills used to be generated on day one, arrive on day 8 and be due for payment no later than day ten. When we incurred a late charge we refused to pay it and the line was cut off. We did write to them but the letter was to the Durham address where it appears a fair number of letters simply vanish.

The upshot was that since we discovered 3G broadband was faster than ADSL we didn't need the phone line anyway and we were only one month from the twelve month term, so we refused to be bullied and told BT where to put their phone line.

BT_company_representative

Hi Rockport,

I would like to take a look at the bill you received to insure that those charges have been raised correctly. If you could please drop me an email, with your BT account details? I will then take a look at your account and reply to you directly. My email address can be found by clicking on my profile.

Thanks

Paddy,

Rockport

Hi Paddy,

For transparency, can you confirm how many days must elapse from either the issue date of the original bill, or the due payment date of the original bill to the date where BT prints a red reminder letter?

Example.

Original bill issue date 11th June, original bill due payment date 21th June.

What would be the issue date of a red reminder, and what would be the final date for payment that is available for the customer to pay the bill, after the issue of the red reminder, before any charges are incurred?

If you can provide a completely transparent answer to that question, I will appreciate your assistance.

ACDeag

I see TalkTalk are now going to take (for ex-Tiscali customers anyway) their money out of your account 3 days after billing date. Surely this is getting rediculous.

BT_company_representative

Hi Rockport,

There is no set general period between the red and blue bill. The blue bill is payable upon receipt and red-bill follow-up depends upon many factors including payment history, initial or regular bill, monthly or quarterly billing, etc

Thanks,

Stephanie
BT Support

Rockport

There you have it folks. BT doesn't even have a transparent policy that they are prepaired to provide in order to help customers plan their personal finances. Thats what you call honesty and integrity.

I can only assume BT doesn't care if a person fails to receive a red reminder with enough time to pay a bill without forfeiting a charge. (If a person knew when to anticipate a red reminder they would be able to pay their bill without incurring additional charges, even if the red reminder became "lost" in the post. Wouldn't that be good customer service and helpful to people in this modern era of economic uncertainty?) Or perhaps BT prefer to maintain a non-transparent policy in order to justify preying upon people at their personal discretion, applying charges at any available opportunity? (Or in some cases attempting to apply charges that are not even justified according to their own code of practice.)

So, I have a customer advisor who advised myself over the telephone that there is a 14 day period between the original bill and the red bill due date, now I have a customer advisor saying that there is no clear policy. One could be forgiven for wondering how they manage to organise anything at all with no constant policy that they or anybody else is able to refer to.

A load of cobblers and I don't believe you for one moment. But that is exactly what I have come to expect from BT these days, poor customer service, unclear non-transparent advice and excessive charges that are in some cases completely unjustified according to their own code of practice.

In my case I have recieved RED REMINDERS asking for payment BEFORE the DUE DATE of the ORIGINAL bill, I have paid previous bills later than the bill I recieved charges for and not had charges applied (Therefore logic would dictate that I had no reason to anticipate charges for the bill I did receive charges for). I have been charged for services I don't even use as my calls don't route through BT. I have even had direct debits set up with other peoples bank account details !

BT, a really great company, without a doubt.

Mark_In_Hampshire

I seem to remember that the particular invoice which began our dispute was issued on day 1, arrived on day 8 and was due for payment on day 10 e.g. 2 days after it arrived.

The reminder letter followed on day 12 and the "we're applying late charges" letter on day 13. A farce, really.

This is either complete incompetence, or a bullying attempt to treat people like children by saying that the reason the customer is late in paying is because they have not surrendered control of their bank account to the payee.

I'd suggest the original poster changes line rental to the post office who do not rip you off to the tune of £4.50 to pay your bill.

I would also comment that the policy of waiting for a reminder in order to pay is not an acceptable one; payment should be made by the due date of the invoice. Except that BT make that deliberately almost impossible to do.

mjm3346

Rockport wrote: »

In my case I have recieved RED REMINDERS asking for payment BEFORE the DUE DATE of the ORIGINAL bill,

There is no reason a reminder cannot be issued before the last day payment is due as long as it is not dated more than 5 days before that. This just gets the clock running for the late payment charge and enables BT to charge as soon as the due date has passed and avoids extending the interest free period.

"You can avoid a late payment charge by making sure we receive your full payment within five days of the date we sent the red reminder bill"

If you have a bill with a due date of 25th then the red reminder should be dated the 20th so late charges can be made from the 26th.

Mark_In_Hampshire

Ah, but if you had a bill with a due date of the 25th, you'd have received it on the 23rd.

If the reminder was dated the 20th, you'd receive that on the 28th five days after, leaving only seven days in total to pay the bill, which is ludicrous as well as a waste of paper.

But that seems to be the norm for what companies think they can get away with these days.

Rockport

mjm3346 wrote: »

There is no reason a reminder cannot be issued before the last day payment is due as long as it is not dated more than 5 days before that. This just gets the clock running for the late payment charge and enables BT to charge as soon as the due date has passed and avoids extending the interest free period.

"You can avoid a late payment charge by making sure we receive your full payment within five days of the date we sent the red reminder bill"

If you have a bill with a due date of 25th then the red reminder should be dated the 20th so late charges can be made from the 26th.

I have received red reminders with the SAME ISSUE DATE as the ORIGINAL BILL. After speaking to the Indian customer service operator, it became completely obvious that BT employees are told by management to pressure people into providing bank details, as I was "advised" no less than 5 times in one conversation that paying by direct debit would avoid "any future problems". With all due respect to the advisor, I only need to be told something once in order to be aware of a situation, but ultimately it isn't their fault as they are obviously pressured into pressuring customers.

As far as the "interest free period" is concerned relating to bill payments, I think it is very poor practice to apply the excessive charges that BT enforce considering that all customers pay line rental 3 MONTHS IN ADVANCE to begin with. I only pay for line rental, and it is paid 3 MONTHS IN ADVANCE. So even if I paid my bill 2 months late, BT would still have my money and be earning interest on that money 1 month before I had even received their services.

If what Stephanie advised is correct, and red reminders are sent out at the discretion of employees dependent upon "a wide range of factors" then perhaps these staff should be trained correctly and stop applying charges for services that I don't even recieve, such as barring calls £11.50 considering I don't make calls on BT's network.