Next door has subsidence and blames my wall! Argh! Please advice needed!

shomake21

Anyhelp would be greatly appreciated guys!!

Basically my neighbours property sits above mine about 2 metres on a large stone wall which according to the deeds is my wall, there is a fence on here and their house sits around a metre back from this.

Of late i have noticed hell of a lot of water running from this wall into my property and was so concerned i contact the council, waterboard etc, who said its mountain water and that basically, Suck it up!

In our garden the council had previously built like a concrete bollard path which didnt ajoin the wall but had a gap of around 3 inches to cart water to the drain, it didnt work, and the concrete had started to crack and allow water into the house.

Got a builder, well reputable, in to take a look and he said the best thing would be to replace concrete bollard path (have pics as hard to describe) with proper drain channels with some overflow gulleys to cope with this water. He said the boundary wall that my neighbour sits had no footings and that he had spotted a large crack on their extension which was worrying, so he said he couldnt structurally touch the wall but would lay in these new drain channels, same level as concrete previous, but obv be much better as they are wider and with gratings on, rather than just a gap which council had previously done.

Then yesterday we had a knock from the door from our neighbour. He wanted us to look at the pathing slabs around his house, which by good have slumped into the ground. I explained to him that i have warned residents that this water is running like a river washing away our footings, but he thinks ive structurally damaged the wall. Looking at the wall tho, it looks sound, the only subsiding i can see is his path, and a huge crack in his extension which has been getting worse.

Phoned the council to come out and have a look as my insurer wont come till monday as they say my property is unaffected, and they think the wall is sound, spoke to my neighbour last night and he seemed alot more aggrivated, like i've caused it. And told me its my wall, so ive the responsibility to keep it maintained, which i agree, but surely this stability of the wall cant include up to 2m on his land?? Checked the extension last night too (his extension) and could directly put my hand underneath it, does this mean theres no footings??

Im soooo scared right now, just know that this is not going to be an easy ride as he sees it as it was only moving a little before and now has moved alot as my fault.

Any help or suggestions, building advice, experience of subsidence (assuming it is with the movement) would be greatly appreciated. Am only 26, love the building industry but am really confused by this one! I have loads of pictures too and videos, because thank god i pictured the problem before they started which shows no change in the floor level (i,e, excavations on my behalf).

X :(:( X

anselld

The stability of his extension is nothing to do with your wall, it should have its own footings. IMHO all you can be responsible for is the wall itself.

shomake21

This is what i think, and the stability of the wall seems good, hasnt moved, bowed or anything, even though his extension has about 3 inches. Only thing is he says the removing of my concrete path has caused it, but like, why should my concrete path hold up his house, surely, that aint right. thanks for such a quick reply too! Any help is so appreciated, havent slept and feel sick with worry! x

anselld

shomake21 wrote: »

This is what i think, and the stability of the wall seems good, hasnt moved, bowed or anything, even though his extension has about 3 inches. Only thing is he says the removing of my concrete path has caused it, but like, why should my concrete path hold up his house, surely, that aint right. thanks for such a quick reply too! Any help is so appreciated, havent slept and feel sick with worry! x

Absolutely right. Paths are decorative / functional and cannot be structural. Presumably it was only a few inches of concrete for walking on.

Jonbvn

As a civil structural engineer, I would comment as follows:

1. Given the volume of water you describe, it sounds like the soil beneath your neighbours extension is being washed-out, which is causing subsidence. This is not your problem.
2. Since the wall is structurally sound (as stated by the council), I cannot see how he can blame you for this problem.
3. Sounds like his extension has no footings. I doubt he has building regs. approval.
4. I can see that this problem will involve both house insurers. Check to see that yours provides legal cover.
5. If you get no joy from your insurer, it may be worth engaging a structural engineer to investigate this matter. Use the link to find one in your area. http://www.findanengineer.com/

HTH

shomake21

exactly, most it could have been was 6inches, plus, if i can describe it well it never actually ajoined the wall it was put there to stop this water overspilling from the garden wall, then there was like a channel of mud that carried some of the water to a gulley, ive just taken it away and put a bigger gulley in. I obv see his point that since i done this his slabs and path have slumped into the ground, but surely i cant be held responsible as i never caused the water, it comes from the mountains, and runs under our properties, all im doing is protecting mine. I think this was just a problem that was waiting to happen, especially when he has these huge cracks on the extension which he says he's been monitoring for years! x Thanks again for such a quick reply! x

poppysarah

If the council told you the water is mountain water tough, and it's causes these problems for your neighbour, then it's equally tough.

Extensions need foundations!

shomake21

Another thing, i get that the boundary wall is mine, but his extension sits back 2 metres of it, surely too, if he's built on my wall then some of the responsiblity must be shared if it was the wall, as why should i maintain the upkeep soley of a wall that holds up his house??? x Dont know what the views or law is on this? x

Jonbvn

Another website worth posting this issue on is Garden Law
http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/

Dr.Shoe_2

Firstly, an individual cannot be held liable for a neighbour's subsidence unless they have deliberately undermined his property (which you haven't).

If you alter or remove a structure or feature on your own property this cannot and should not affect your neighbour unless that feature is a structural part of your neighbour's property like, for example, a party wall. This means that if he has a shed or part of his house built into a party wall that you own then you can be liable for damage to that part of his property. Provided that the structure conforms to building regulations and had planning permission. For unregulated structures (such as greenhouses) then you are not liable. As no part of your wall is an integral part of his property then you are not liable.

The spring water is washing away his soil from under his extension and this is a circumstance that is beyond your control. Moreover, it sounds as if it has been built like a conservatory, that is to say without regulation and planning permission. Therefore:

• Is it less than 30m^2?

• Does it have a transparent roof?

• Is it isolated from the main central heating system?

• Is it seperated from the rest of the house by a door of some description?

If any of the above is answered no then it should have been subject to planning regulation and building control. If there are no footings then it does not conform to regulations and is illegal.

Fire_Fox

Why are you contacting the council if this is private property?? Try to chill out and wait for your insurers to inspect both properties.