Court of Protection- Deputies

Willman_Rodders

EdInvestor wrote: »

This new system seems to have a lot of downsides.Is it actually 'fit for purpose'? Was it set up after a period of public consultation, or is it a wholly bureaucratic/Govt effort?

With regards to the creation of 'Lasting Powers of Attorney' (LPA) there have been a number of consulations over a significant period of time. Improvements have been made after each consultation, the process has been simplified, and [to a certain extent] the weaknesses of the 'Enduring Powers of Attorney' (EPA) addressed. As part of the 'reduction in abuse' risk with EPAs though we now have a 'certificate provider' with LPAs; the certificate provider is key to the process, but many people are presently unwilling to take on the role.

As far as seeking the role of deputy (for when a person no longer has mental capacity to make a valid LPA) I do not know what the process was in previous years, or how it may have changed in say the last decade. The Mental Capacity Act 2005 has formalised the responsibilites and duties of carers, deputies, attorneys etc. with the aim of protecting the vulnerable in our society. I do recall there being significant consultation before it became law - but, in view of the complexity of the topic, I suspect it would be the professional bodies (The Law Society, Social Services etc) that had the most input.

I am seeing people working with vulnerable people being increasingly aware of the need to comply with the Act. In that respect the changes are welcome. However, as you state Ed Investor, the hoops and rings that deputies (and to a lesser extent atttorneys) have to now jump through are more complex - and may be detrimental to the health and well being of the very person these procedures are designed to help protect.

Errata

A very clear and informative post. With regard to consultation, all the charities with a client base which would be affected by the changes took part in the consultation process eg Age Concern, Help the Aged, Mencap, MIND etc. A number of User Involvement groups also commented.

javajim

Thanks to all of you for your very useful replies, which have given us lots to think about.

javajim

Thanks to all for your replies.
We are meeting with a solictor on Monday as we are still unsure about it all.
Javajim

Savvy_Sue

Would be good if you came back and shared what you decided to do and why.

javajim

We met with the solictor yesterday and have decided to go ahead and apply to be deputies, which apparently could be a lengthy process as Willman Rodders said.
My wife has been a friend of the lady for over thirty years and she doesn't have any relatives living nearby. The solicitor has to contact the relatives to see if they are agreeable.

Payless_2

shirlgirl2004 wrote: »

I am a joint deputy for a relative. The costs involved are an application to the court and insurance (in case you run off with the person's money). These costs come from the money belonging to the person to whom the application relates. There are 2 forms of Deputy one is for financial affairs and the other is for health and welfare.

The application form is quite daunting and we found solicitors weren't interested in helping (and not many know about it). In reality you can just fill it in as any layperson would. One important issue is that you must include everything in the application that you would want to do. So if you decide her house needs to be sold you must include it. If you think there may be insurance policies to claim from you need to include it. Anything not included may require another application at £450 or whatever it is.

It has to be said the Court Of Protection are useless. They work incredibly slowly and don't update their notes etc. Once appointed you have to produce yearly accounts and justify the decisions you have made.

Certainly for us it has been a lot of work but then the case my joint deputy and I have taken on is a complex one. There is a business involved as well as personal financial affairs. Only take it on if you have the time to spend on it. Additionally you would be expected to visit the individual in her care home regularly to update her on what you are doing and ask if she has opinions. I know she has dementia but to the COP that doesn't make a difference.

I hope my info helps and if I can be of further help just ask.

I have the pack to apply for deputyship for my mam's affairs. We were hoping that she still might be able to apoint my brother and myself as power of attorneys but think that she is now too far gone. She has alzheimer's and is suspicious to the point that she keeps trying to have us arrested for stealing from her. I hasten to say we have not. She just loses everything.

What is the insurance that Mam will have to take out if we are appointed?

Errata

Payless wrote: »

I have the pack to apply for deputyship for my mam's affairs. We were hoping that she still might be able to apoint my brother and myself as power of attorneys but think that she is now too far gone. She has alzheimer's and is suspicious to the point that she keeps trying to have us arrested for stealing from her. I hasten to say we have not. She just loses everything.

What is the insurance that Mam will have to take out if we are appointed?

Someone has to certify that the individual applying to appoint POA to a person(s) has the mental capacity to do so. It sounds like nobody would be able to certify that your mum has capacity.

ians1

We applied for Deputyship when my father went into a home with severe dementia.

There are one or two pitfalls and tips I can give from our experience.

First of all you may not need to be a Deputy, particularly if the sums of money in bank accounts are only small. Many banks will let relatives take over if there is less than £5,000 say. But not all banks are the same.

You can apply to the DWP to be an "Appointee" for the person,you don't need a court order for that but they may want to visit you and the person.

I make it clear from the outset that what you are seeking is a Court Order made by a Judge ordering that you take over the persons affairs etc.

Its not worth applying to take charge of their care requirements (unless you are in dispute with the local NHS for instance about turning off a respirator for instance) as all the court will say is you do not need a court order but they will spend weeks delaying your app to do so.

So only apply for "Property and Affairs" Deputyship. It means less forms to fill in, and there a LOT of them!

We started the application in May last year which gives you some idea how long this process takes.

If you are going to apply it is cheaper if you or the person who is named as the "Applicant" is on benefits because you can be exempted from paying any fees. Also if you have low income and low assets.

I would not recommend a "Joint" application for Deputyship. The reason being is that if one deputy has to resign (because if ill health or family responsibilities for instance) or dies then the original order becomes null and void and the whole process has to start again from scratch for the sole deputy to get that all important order.

The court forms have notes that tell you how to do it,but do not explain things too well.

In most cases you will need to ask the court's permission to apply. Yes it sounds daft but that's the COP for you! You have to fill a form in for that, but you can put it in at the same time as you fill in the main application form. Just fill it in anyway, they will simply ignore it if you did not need permission but if you did they will send all your stuff back till you complete it!

Once they have accepted your application (this took 3 months in our case) they send you a letter letting you know that an application is in progress etc.

If any of your friends or relatives or social services object at this point expect another 2 months delay. That's what happened to us. Anyone who DOES object can only object on pretty narrow grounds that you are not fit to be a deputy. Just saying that they don't like you and they think you are after the persons money is NOT grounds for an objection, there has to be solid tangible evidence to back up any accusations of that nature. Sometimes they will ask for affidavits in some cases of objection.

Once the order is made (but not issued) (this may be 6,7, 8 or more months down the line) they will ask you to provide a Insurance Bond to cover whatever assets your person has, the bigger the figure the bigger the premium, eg £200- £300 typically. You need to pay that even if you are on benefits but you can claim it back out of the persons assets. They say you have a choice of were to get the Bond,but effectively they have a cosy little relationship with only one firm, Marsh Ltd Insurance Brokers,who effectively only deal with Aviva.

Once you have the Bond you have to tell them to issue the court order otherwise they will wait forever,we got caught with that one,waited several weeks before we twigged you have to do all the footwork yourself.

The the Office of the Public Guardian steps in,these are the people who administer the order,just another part of the COP really but based in Birmingham not London.

That's it really, expect to do a lot of running around and fill a lot of forms in and pay out loads of incidental expenses and wait a long time.

Then eventually you will be able to draw 10 bob out of your relatives bank to buy him/her a pair of new slippers!

Really wonderful system isn't it?

:rotfl:

icy

Hi, I was appointed as a Deputy by the Court of Protection earlier this year. When it comes to producing annual accounts I intend to do this work myself. It would help to know what sort of detail I will have to provide so I can basically keep thinks in the correct format as I go along. Does anyone have any experience of prepariing deputy annual accounts? Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks.