Electric works

bjd_2

Hey all,

I hope I'm posting this in the right forum as I am after some advice on how to resolve an issue I'm having with my plumber.

I recently purchased a flat and decided to rip out the bathroom. A relative recommended a plumber and I got a quote. The letter had his qualifications including, "Part P electrical qualified" (amongst other certs).

Anyway, the bathroom suite has been installed and the job is nearly complete, however, I asked for a power shower to be installed and this has been done but it plugs straight into a socket in another room. I suspect this is highly dangerous as it's not RCD protected (I think I might also need stuff bonded?).

When I questioned the guy he doesn't seem to be able to tell me what scheme he's registered with and told me that he'd have to "look it up" when I requested a certificate for the work he had done. Supposing he isn't registered I guess he should have registered the work with building control which I suspect didn't happen.

Obviously I'm going to have to get an electrician in to sort this out but I'm wondering how I should go about resolving this with the plumber? Should I say I'll pay the amount quoted plus materials minus electricians costs? Or?

Would be interested to hear people's thoughts!

Thanks

iamcornholio

If a shower is plugged in to a socket , not own its on feed from the consumer unit (fuse board) then unplug and don't use it unless you want to be showering under the stars with no roof above

Don't pay anything untill the work is corrected, or deduct the costs of getting it corrected from the bill.

Any squabbles, and report the guy straight away to building control and the councils consumer protection dept (trading standards) - in fact report him anyway as his next customer may well end up fried to a crisp

keystone

Do you mean a power shower or do you mean an electric shower?

An electric shower which heats cold water direct from mains should have its own dedicated hardwired circuit back to the Consumer Unit, RCD protected and with the cable correctly sized for the power of the shower and the routing. If thats what you have whats been done is downright criminal and it should not be used. As another poster has said he should be reported for this.

If however you have a power (ie separately or integrally pumped) shower the volts only work the pump with the hot water coming from your cylinder. What has been done also fails is it doesn't provide isolation via a double pole switch mounted in an adjacent room (and fused at no more than 3 amps - a 13A plug is a no-no). The pump may be fed from a 13A ring main provide the ring is RCD protected at the consumer unit. Unlike an electric shower it doesn't need a mahusive CSA cable either.

The latter is obviously a better scenario than the former but in any event under Part P any electrical work in a bathroom must be notified to LABC a bathroom being a special location UNLESS its a like for like replacement with no wiring changes. In this case there is no need to issue a Minor Works Cert (17th Edn Wiring Regs) either. He's prolly trying the plug route to circumvent issuing an MWC but as I say that fails as well.

I think you should confront him on this one and tell him that you are not paying him a penny until HE procures the services of a properly qualified electrician to sort this out for you and at his cost I would venture. If its an electric shower then I'd definately be going down the report route but you must be certain of exactly what is going on and what has been done before you do so. First step is is it "power" or is it "electric".

As regards supplementary equipotential bonding in your bathroom is concerned that is not required if the installation is wired to the 17th Edition with all circuits RCD protected. 16th requires it.

HTH

Cheers

bjd_2

Guys, thanks for the replies - both are really helpful.

keystone wrote: »

Do you mean a power shower or do you mean an electric shower?

Sorry, I should have clarified that. I think it's a thermostatic shower, it has two water inputs which spur off the same pipes that provide water to the bath (so they must be coming from the water tanks and not the mains).

I should also clarify that this bathroom was the original from the 1970's (think retro green!) so all the wiring is new and there is no like-for-like replacements.

I know a very good electrician so I'll get a quote from him and deduct the cost from the plumber's bill. Like another poster said I'll be off to building control/trading standards if there's any silliness.

Thanks again.

keystone

bjd wrote: »

Sorry, I should have clarified that. I think it's a thermostatic shower, it has two water inputs which spur off the same pipes that provide water to the bath (so they must be coming from the water tanks and not the mains).

Thats very poor plumbing. The shower should have separate dedicated feeds for both hot and cold that are completely independent of other drawoffs. Where is the pump situated? Is it within the boundaries of the bathroom or is it somewhere else?

I should also clarify that this bathroom was the original from the 1970's (think retro green!) so all the wiring is new and there is no like-for-like replacements.

Any other electrics done? Bathroom cabinet? Extractor fan? New lighting? All Part P notifiable and an extract fan is not an option for a bathroom refurb any more under Part now!

I know a very good electrician so I'll get a quote from him and deduct the cost from the plumber's bill. Like another poster said I'll be off to building control/trading standards if there's any silliness.

Get him to look at it first, tell you what's wrong and discuss it sensibly with your plumber so that he knows whats coming.

Cheers

DVardysShadow

keystone wrote: »

Sorry, I should have clarified that. I think it's a thermostatic shower, it has two water inputs which spur off the same pipes that provide water to the bath (so they must be coming from the water tanks and not the mains)

.Thats very poor plumbing. The shower should have separate dedicated feeds for both hot and cold that are completely independent of other drawoffs.

???? Pragmatically, there is not a lot wrong with this. Firstly, the concept of a draw off is a bit vague - even if you mean any last branch in a system., it is no worse than connecting to another pipe in the system which is not a last branch, but could be the same bore. Secondly, who runs a bath while taking a shower?

keystone

Sorry to disagree but pragmatically there is everything wrong with it. The OP only thinks its a thermo rather than a mixer. In any case the shower should have separate supplies from both the CWST and the HW cylinder. If it doesn't opening the kitchen hot tap will affect supply to the shower irrespective of where it's tee'd off. Running a bath and operating the shower at the same time is, frankly in this scenario, not too relevant.

Cheers

bjd_2

keystone wrote:

Thats very poor plumbing. The shower should have separate dedicated feeds for both hot and cold that are completely independent of other drawoffs. Where is the pump situated? Is it within the boundaries of the bathroom or is it somewhere else?

There is no pump, altho the water pressure is low, taps/shower operates fine.

keystone wrote: »

Any other electrics done? Bathroom cabinet? Extractor fan? New lighting? All Part P notifiable and an extract fan is not an option for a bathroom refurb any more under Part now!

I was planning on having all the other electrical work i.e. light/towel rail done by an electrician so thats not so much of an issue.

With regards to ventilation, I was under the impression that opening a window would be adequate and I wouldn't need an extractor fan?

keystone

bjd wrote: »

There is no pump, altho the water pressure is low, taps/shower operates fine.

But you said it was a power shower and your concern was with the way its connected to the volts!! Now I'm confused TBH. What have you got fitted?

I was planning on having all the other electrical work i.e. light/towel rail done by an electrician so thats not so much of an issue.

Good.

With regards to ventilation, I was under the impression that opening a window would be adequate and I wouldn't need an extractor fan?

You need an extract fan to conform with Bldg Regs. Opening a window doesn't, I'm afraid, provide "adequate air extraction".. Don't blame me blame Prescott!

Cheers

1984ReturnsForReal_2

The pump will be under the bath I bet..

keystone

I was thinking the same thing TBH but didn't want to preempt the answer.

Cheers