Moneysaving- dont buy a 4x4 in london!

gromituk

To anyone who gets upset being criticised for driving around a vehicle which shouts out to everyone "look what a wasteful selfish person I am" I ask them - if you didn't want to flaunt your attitudes, then why did you buy the damed thing in the first place?

Thenotsowyzewun

Maybe we should start a new thread; what to make out of your SUV, like take the seats and put them in your living room, and see what else you could salvage - we don't want to encourage people just to sell them.
Maybe Ken could setup a fund so anyone who volunteered to have their Hummer crushed got some compensation (not necessarily financial; if they've bought one I doubt they'll have trouble affording a new car!).

- we can guilt trip them all we want, but we need to think of ways to get them off the road permanently.

I just had a good idea for the Tate next year - crush a Hummer and then submit and call it "green" or something like that.

Sybarite

Hummer drivers do seem to be in a (lack of) class all of there own. I think the things come ready supplied with a large diamond encrusted bling pendant that says 'I'm a !!!!!! & I like to advertise it' just in case you were left in any doubt.

A friend of mine once introduced me to a really nice intelligent guy (Phd & everything) who had just had the drive side on his spanky new Hummer converted at a cost of 15k.

I don't think he actually kept the thing for very long though as he mostly had to drive in central London, which meant: he could never find a larger enough parking space, kept hitting other vehicles because the Hummer is so wide, encountered furious drivers because he'd virtually block narrow streets, was ticketed for being outside parking bay markings and was sick to death of having to stop for petrol all the time.

And yes it was a case of more money than sense, coupled with a big insecurity about his machismo.

Dan29

So what's he replaced it with, a Ferrari? A Bentley? Either would be much better for the environment than a 4-wheel-drive vehicle, I'm sure. No need to look up any facts to prove that (apparently).

Sybarite

I'm not sure but I bet you're right, it probably was an equally gass-guzzling high performance car of some description. Not sure what facts you're referring to though.

The Hummer was vile looking vehicle and it didn't get any better close up. It's not very nice inside either, surprisingly tacky considering the cost. To to me it looks like an agricultural machine with a paint job. Apparently a standard Land Rover outperforms them (should you need to go off road) and on gradients they perform rather poorly.

Dan29

Yep Hummers are awful - tacky beyond belief - but my point is that some earlier posts seem to be comparing a Land Rover Discovery with a Nissan Micra whereas in reality someone trading in a 4-wheel-drive vehicle isn't generally going to be changing to a supermini; more likely a big-engined saloon or sportscar.

In other words, many 2-wheel-drive cars are more polluting and longer and/or wider than many cars being criticised in this thread (some of which aren't even 4-wheel drive).

Sybarite

It's a fair point - certainly the engine capacity and fuel type is the most important criteria in terms of CO2 emissions. Although as has been pointed out earlier in this thread SUVs are associated with distinct safety concerns and pedestrian injuries and are typically larger with poor fuel consumption and generally unsuited to cramped urban driving conditions. Hence the focussed criticism.

I can see why people toy with the idea of having one - I did a few years ago as my work does sometimes require me to go off road and carry lots of equipment - but my evaluation was that the benefits were largely erroneous and having to use one in London would be a pain - I was actually very shocked that anyone thinks the fuel economy is acceptable. For me this was big negative cross against buying one.

I don't buy the 'it's good for the kids' junk' arguement either. It seems a very flimsy justification.

Dan29

Sybarite wrote:

generally unsuited to cramped urban driving conditions.

As is a Porsche 911 Turbo or Ferrari F599 but I don't see anyone calling for people to have to justify their reasons for owning one before they're allowed to buy one.

Still, I'm not aiming this at you as your arguments are very considered and properly explained; it's a shame not everyone is like that.

gromituk

Porsches and Ferraris are stupidly overpowered but I'd rather get hit by one than a Chelsea tractor. I don't think anyone disagrees that there is a small minority of vehicles which are more damaging than Chelsea tractors, so why do you keep going on about it?

Dan29

Because of people who keep going on about "Chelsea tractors" as if they believe any old rubbish they read in the newspaper.

If pedestrian safely is your biggest concern, why aren't you campaigning for better driver training rather than trotting out the same old cliche again and again?