Weezl's phase 1- recipe testing and frugalisation- come one, come all!

artybear

Hi weezl and co, wrong forum I know but I'd like to Pm Weezl-did it get there-Im not sure. Please let me know and how to do itXXX

artybear

I figured it out-weezl can you delete some pms??XX

weezl74

more middle-of-the-night musings from me :)

Okay, I hear that the lovely readers and testers are saying that there is an issue with this challenge. I have pondered it and I think it is valid.

A number of you have both on here and via PM let me know that the literalness of the £100 is likely to cause a problem with the success of the plan. I initially thought this was a reaction to the subsistence level of the diet and responded to that, but now I feel another strand has emerged, which I'd like to address, because I think it's valid.

I think people are saying that there are simply too many variables to make this work for a stated price. People don't all live near the same supermarkets, they don't live where I do in the country, they don't have the baking equipment I have, they don't feel confident just chucking veg, vinegar and sugar in a pan and hoping for a chutney like I do baking bread is an unheard of for them.

In addition to that, foods vary seasonally and also Asda are forever introducing roll backs here and sudden rises there, that within days of us going live with something it would become obsolete.

Further, people have to contend with their real life, in which mum can't cook and has no cake tins, DS is a vegetarian, DD doesn't like a meal without meat and Dad snacks on an apple everytime he walks past a fruit bowl.

I do feel sad and disheartened about that. I know that as soon as I say that I will trigger lots of nice affirming posts about how people do like the challenge and agree with the vision and think this is something important . I know this about you all already

The people who are letting me know the practical downsides of this challenge are also on my side, and I sense concerned not to see me plough energy into something, only to have it's very first user attempt my shopping list, find that asda is out of chick peas., walk away in disgust and write to me/us saying that they've had to spend another frustrating £450 in the supermarket on the already heaving credit card rather than using our meal planner because they had no idea how to do the houmous sanwiches any other way.

Those who have raised these points have probably realised I would find this very disheartening and are trying to protect me, I value that.

So rather than get into any awwww weezl we love you really, keep your chin up (although a bit of that is always nice!;)). I wonder if we can have a bit of a discussion over the next few days about whether these practical concerns and objections should make us:

• carry on anyway- it's a hell of a journey and it'll probably lead to something good, even if it's only us lot enjoying a fair bit of quiche and carrot cake!
• Stop and do something different-please say what this might be...
  
• some other option somewhere between the two which I can't quite figure out at this time of the morning!

Over to you, dear reader

weezl74

potty,

My feedback on your excellent survey. I'm posting it here because I'd like it not just to be a dictator me saying what goes or stays and also because it's a brilliant part of the work of this challenge and I don't want that to get missed in the story of what we're doing here.

Side issue explaining this further: My personal view about this thread and countless others like it, is that they represent a fascinating record of community and what it achieves and how it works. It also shows prices of foods, how people eat, what they like to buy and their highs and lows. The value of all of this written down publically is immense. The government commissioned it in the second world war, asking for wartime diaries of ordinary people, and used it to inform policy. This project gave rise to the Diary of Nella Last, televised in the TV drama 'Housewife, 49' starring Victoria Wood. Fascinating stuff. An amazing slice of real history.

In an internet age we have it all written down, and what an amazing resource for people centric decision makers and historians of the future. I'm no 'housewife, 49' but maybe the mad challenge of UK frugalisation of 'part-time worker, mum of 1.8, aged 34 and the views of lots of friends' feels like it's worth recording somehow.

And that's why if you PM me, which is lovely, I will most likely try to also represent your view on here. Because it is a valid part of our quest together. Don't worry if you PM me about a gigantic and embarrassing boil on your bum or someother confidential matter I shall not publish that. (although please don't it sounds icky )


And back to the point: I love the survey and thanks for your hard work.:A:T:T:T:T:T. The survey tool may not allow extra questions so please feel free to ignore me, but if there's more space, how about:

Is there a way we can include a question where people type the post number of this thread which contains the recipe they followed, or the online address of the original recipe if they followed that (ie delia online, or BBCGoodFood etc). I think it will really help to work out if we need to reduce the sugar/oil if we know which version people had followed.

I'd also be interested in the question, 'if this meal/recipe were served only with the rest of the day's food shown on the planner, do you feel this meal/snack would have been filling and sustaining enough for your family, or did it need additions?'

'do you perceive this to have been a healthy meal and did your family?'

You've pretty much encapsulated this already in one of your excellent questions, but a bit like: 'with what frequency would everyone in the family be willing to eat this meal/snack?' I think yours might more tap into how often the cook could be bothered to make it in an average month, which is also very useful data, so please don't lose that one!

weezl74

Facts about fats. Fatty facts.

OK a little more about fats and this challenge.

In the parameters of the challenge I had a go at defining 'healthy' as in 'a healthy diet'.

I said the planner would where possible avoid and ideally exclude transfats.

We have also looked together a bit at saturated fats and oils and the purity of butter vs butterlike spread as we've been going along.

So I thought I'd try to clarify a bit more, and I'll link this post to the parameters post at the beginning of the challenge later.

I feel the meal planner should avoid transfats for the health reasons explained in this wiki article

also for reasons stated in the article I am less concerned to eliminate saturated fats from the planner. This is because although they do in large quantity present a risk of raising 'bad' cholesterol (LDL) levels, they don't do this when in the prescence in the same diet of other ingredients, of which oats are a prime example. My feeling is that therefore if they contain not a huge amount of saturated fat, and in the presence of oats, then I feel this is a way we can keep the diet subsistence-level price-wise, but with a good conscience from a health perspective.

I in no way feel this diet will represent the type of eating for optimum health that to only use raw extra virgin olive oil as your only fat source does. But that aint subsistence! And you'd be amazed how many trolleys in the supermarket contain said extra virgin (for health reasons rather than regular olive oil), but then cook with it:eek:, or that and the presence of cheeky little hidden saturated fats in the same trolley (feta cubes with your sun dried tomatoes darling?;):cool:'

weezl74

avocet's fantastic stock checking spreadsheet...

Avocet I'm very grateful for your time and creativity in creating this tool for our challenge. :T:T:T:T

I'm aware too that I keep tinkering with the shopping list as I realise there id too much of one thing, not enough of another or that one meal isn't working and needs swapping. So it feels like that could be quite frustrating.

What do you think is a good way forward? Could I have access through googledocs to the spreadsheet and play around with amounts and costings myself? Or would you like me just to give you up dates of the shopping list and ask what we've run out of. I've a hunch we've way too little oil, but I can'y figure it out yet :rotfl:



PS if anyone is wondering why I've gone all big, it's cos via PM I realise the font I use is a little illegible. So now I'm shouting! (not really!)

ceridwen

twinkle_star wrote: »

A few queries here - I'm being driven completely bonkers by online shopping!

For example, I know that Sainsbury's have vegan bouillon powder but is it listed on mysupermarket or on their website? No.

So, I've checked Asda and neither do they. But do they actually not have it or just not list it? This is most confusing. I've had similar results with tofu, red cabbage and other bits and bobs.

Luckily, Knorr vegetable stock cubes appear to be vegan safe but you get my point.

I have my suspicions too that supermarkets maybe dont list all ingredients they stock on their online website. When it came to trying to hunt out baking powder the other day for that carrot cake recipe - I simply couldnt find such a basic product there on either Tesco or Sainsbury listing on the www.mysupermarket.com website. I wondered if that meant that baking powder is no longer available in our society for some reason - but duly bought myself some Doves Farm baking powder from a health shop in the end (at :eek: price level) - but I imagine that there is still a "standard" brand of baking powder in British shops.

So - yep - I wouldnt be at all surprised if at least some of the supermarkets dont give full listings of their products. Goodness knows why...

weezl74

on eating the colours and how to guesstimate it for each day:

each day we should have 1 portion from each of the following groups:

red(Tomatoes, spaghetti sauce, tomato juice, tomato soup, red peppers, red onions, beetroot, red cabbage, kidney beans, apples, pink grapefruit, red grapes, strawberries, cherries, watermelon, raspberries, cranberries, pomegranates)
yellow or orange (Carrots, summer squash, corn, sweet potatoes, butternut squash,pumpkin, yellow peppers, cantaloupe,grapefruit, lemons, nectarines, oranges, peaches, pineapples, tangerines, apricots, mangoes, papayas)

white:(Cauliflower, mushrooms, white beans, onions, garlic, parsnips, shallots, turnips, ginger, bananas, pears, chick peas)

green (Leafy greens, asparagus, green peppers, broccoli, green beans, peas, cabbage, green onion, Brussels sprouts, okra, courgette, green grapes, honeydew melon, kiwifruit, limes)

blue/purple(Aubergine, purple grapes, plums, raisins, blueberries, blackberries, purple figs, dried plums, black currants)

I've put the ones on our list in BOLD

I realise I have made a mistake and was counting both red cabbage and beetroot as blue/purple family...

Back to the drawing board...

ceridwen

Weezl

If things dont go according to plan for our mythical family when they go supermarket shopping - eg because that day Asda et al happen to be out of canned chickpeas or whatever - then thats life and they adapt accordingly and buy the ingredients for Day 10 or whatever instead. That happens ITRW all t'time.

however - having said that - then I think the advice to said family would be to buy everything on the list (apart from fresh stuff or any meat they didnt have space to freeze) at the beginning of their month on the Plan. Failing that - break the Plan Shopping List down into a week-by-week shopping list. ie@
Week 1 - list of things needed for this weeks food
Week 2 - ditto
and to specify in the weekly shopping lists that on Monday such-and-such ingredients will be required and Wednesday that so-and-so ingredients will be required.

Giving them weekly shopping lists (broken down into specific days the ingredients will be required) and putting this in a form whereby they could (assuming access to a computer printer) just print off a Week 1 sheet, Week 2 sheet, etc and it would be up to them to bethink themselves to take along Weeks 2-4 shopping lists also whilst doing the Week 1 one - in case of any supermarket problems. Alternatively - to buy up the whole months worth, as far as possible, at the outset. If I had a month Food Plan and it listed:
2 cans of chickpeas
4 packets of flour (or whatever it listed)

then my personal decision would be to just buy up all that storeable stuff at once and then there would be time left in the rest of the month to "fill the gap" if the supermarket had been out of stock of those chickpeas.

It IS up to the households themselves to take on an element of personal responsibility for the micro-management at a daily level of this Plan.

It is also up to the households themselves to sort out their internal "family politics" if one member of the household is sabotaging the Plan by selfishly demanding that they have some sorta "Lions Share Access" to the food/food money. Whilst we obviously sympathise - it is not us personally that will (according to temperament) cajole/hide food/have blazing rows or whatever-other-way they wish to try and handle this issue.

Certainly - the Plan is WELL worth proceeding with - even though there are all the variables about what shops stock here and what "internal family politics" there are there. Personally - I am thinking along lines of adapting the basic Plan as required and I dont think its a major "disaster" of someone has to buy one brand of buttery spread, rather than another for instance. Or - if someone has to buy one type of canned beans rather than another. I guess its not beyond the wit of this mythical family to think "whoops - no canned chickpeas at the shop this week, so I'll have canned butterbeans instead" for instance.

One of the reasons why I personally think the figure needs raising to £150 per month is to allow for all those variables (so it would be possible to find 2p more for a substitute here, 10p more for a variation there).

Life never goes exactly according to plan or Plan (damn it:cool:) - but its always wise to have a plan/Plan in place - rather than just bumbling along crossing fingers.

Just regard the Plan as "The Rock on Which We Build" our weezl and I really dont think its necessary to micro-manage down to the smallest consideration myself. Errr....and I would still like to see this limit raised to £150 per month (which is still INCREDIBLY ASTONISHINGLY cheap) and gives a bit of leeway for the fact that "Life Happens" and the vast majority of people (me for instance:)) simply dont plan our lives/shopping in that great detail.

I plan to a much greater extent than most other people do - and then sit back in total gobsmacked amazement (and admiration:)) at anyone having the patience/spending the time to plan to the extent you do.

ceridwen

So - at a practical level:

1. give those weekly shopping lists (broken down into days)

2. give substitutes by ingredients (so that people are aware that, for instance, canned butterbeans would substitute for canned chickpeas if need be)

3. forget the "family politics"

4. list equivalents for equipment people might be missing (whether it be equivalent equipment - eg use a small rinsed-out baked bean can with the top cut off instead of a mini pudding basin OR use an empty wine bottle instead of a rolling pin)
OR alternative recipes they can use - eg a cottage loaf type bread recipe, as well as the standard type of bread recipe that requires one to have a bread baking tin.