Car accident - who's at fault?

Inactive

Lum wrote: »

This is the key point, and what I suspect may have been the case here, particularly if the main road was not straight.

Google maps link to road needed I think, otherwise everyone is just making assumptions.

It makes no difference if the road is straight or otherwise, the OP's Dil failed to give way....end of.

Lum

If, when dil started her manouvre, the other car was further back than the visibility of the road allows (ie. due to bends and hedges), how do you expect the dil to give way.

Look at it this way. A car is speeding around a corner, as they round the corner they see an obstacle on the road and they are going so fast that they are unable stop and plough into the back of it. Instead of the Volvo that is mid manouvre it could easily have been a school bus stopped to let off passengers, or a parked car or anything.

Things may have turned out better if dil had reversed rather than try to finish their manouvre quicker, but this may not have been possible if the car behind them had filled in their gap.

Ultimatly, based on the assumption that the dil's initial observation was done correctly and to the limits of the visible road, the cause is the other car going too fast for the conditions.

Note that speeding and too fast for the conditions are two very different things. One is an arbitrary number that is often meaningless, the other is a number that varies constantly with road layout, weather and car/driver capability.

Inactive

Lum wrote: »

Ultimatly, based on the assumption that the dil's initial observation was done correctly and to the limits of the visible road, the cause is the other car going too fast for the conditions.

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It obviously wasn't, we all have to deal with that kind of junction, good drivers do not pull out in to the path of vehicles on the main road, which in this case is exactly what happened.

So OP's Dil at fault, failed to give way.

Lum

An extreme example, but what if the road was like this, Dil was heading from the west and the other car from the north doing 45mph.

Note that those roads aren't much wider than a car.

boliston

Looking back it appears the OP saw the road as completely clear when the turning out manoeuvre was started. If a speeding vehicle appears once the OP was already committed to the manoeuvre then it would mean a very quick decision as to abort or continue. Aborting could have made the situation worse (eg a side on "tbone" type accident and possibly fatal) or might have avoided an accident altogether.

One of the reasons for speed limits is to discourage people from going too fast on roads with restricted sight lines, and I'd say that there is certainly an element of negligence by the "45 in a 30" motorist. His speedo would likely have been reading around 50 so he should have been well aware of being faster than the speed limit.

System

Assuming that the 55m of skid is on a dry, grease free road and therefore indicates a speed of 60+ then when thinking distance is added that only gives 73m.

Pulling out in front of somebody who is 73m away doesn't give them a lot of options.

If the view is limited to that distance then any half decent driver would realise that they would need to accelerate quite hard for the complete manoeuvre(and not just when they notice another vehicle) to clear the danger area.

Lum

!!!!!! wrote: »

If the view is limited to that distance then any half decent driver would realise that they would need to accelerate quite hard for the complete manoeuvre(and not just when they notice another vehicle) to clear the danger area.

If the view is limited to that distance then any half decent driver wouldn't be driving 60+ mph into the unknown, in a 30 limit, in an unfamiliar car.

boliston

!!!!!! wrote: »

If the view is limited to that distance then any half decent driver would realise that they would need to accelerate quite hard for the complete manoeuvre(and not just when they notice another vehicle) to clear the danger area.

"Hard" acceleration can have dangers in itself when turning out of a side road. Accelerating hard when turning has a risk of spinning the wheels and can actually mean it takes longer to clear the junction, and can cause the car to over or under steer which is the last thing you want.

Chippy_Minton_2

jeanmd wrote: »

Makes me wonder how long you should sit there before pulling out when the road is clear of other vehicles, just in case someone decides to speed and crash into you.

She should sit there until you get the answer you want.

jeanmd

Thank you boliston, that is what DiL said.


DiL was turning right out of Dukewood Road to go up Chapel Hill.
You have a clear view both up and down from Victoria street. Prior to that the road is narrow and cars tend to go slower but as soon as they are near Victoria Street they put their foot down.
The cars were parked similar to the photo, but with a small white van parked between the last car and the junction.
DiL had to put the nose of her volvo estate out into the road to get out far enough to see up the hill.
She crawled out till she could see up the road, watching for cars all the time. As soon as she had a clear view by leaning forward she stopped and looked both ways TWICE.
THE ROAD WAS CLEAR OF OTHER CARS. So she started to pull out whilst continuing to look. She saw the other car as it over took a parked car neat the Victoria st. turning. As she had already started to pull out she continued, then realised the car was going fast, so put her foot down to complete the moneuver.
The car started to brake close to where the blue van is in the drive. He swearved all over tboth sides of the road. Managed to hit her bummper and still continued to go over the curb at the end of Dukewood Road, Jump a wall, small though it might be the car didn't touch it. Go across the grass and the bushes stopped him hitting the bungalow. It was a fine dry day.
I have tried to brake fast on a couple occasions to see how he could have travelled so far and for the life of me I can't see how he did it.
Now tell me this guy wasn't speeding and why someone who was doing a perfectly ligitimate maneuver is at fault.