Scottish Hydro Electric - 'Economy' 10

triggerhappy_2

Just looking for some general opinions here.

I've just looked at my electricity meter and estimated that my electricity bill for 27/10/09 - now will be around £360. I suppose for many that would be fairly reasonable at about £120 a month, but I'm a bit gobsmacked. I had a really quite hefty bill for last winter's usage because I was unemployed, in the house all day and it was my first winter in the flat so I had no idea what it would cost and put the heating on quite a lot. Because my bills were estimated at that time I can't figure out what I used exactly, but I got a £480 bill for arrears in August after my meter was read. (I know, I should have read it myself, but as I was paying £250 - £300 a quarter I didn't think the estimates could be far off.)

After learning my lesson, I didn't switch my heating on until the end of November 09 (no mean feat in Glasgow!) and have had it set to come on for 1 hour in the morning between 6am -7am to heat to 16 degrees and then only to come on when the house temeperature drops below 8 degrees thereafter. My water heater comes on for one hour between 5am and 6am. My flat is a small one bedroom and I am out of the house from 8:30am -8:30pm during the week and most of the weekend. When I am here I have to wrap up with several jumpers and pairs of socks to avoid freezing to death.

I'm supposedly on the Economy 10 tarrif, and from my last bill the rates were 7.33p per unit for off-peak and 13.47p each for peak, plus a standing charge of 24.810p per day. The Economy 10 tarrif doesn't appear on their website, but it looks like I'm paying rather a lot per unit for night rates compared to economy 7.

Am I just being silly and that's a reasonable amount for having my heating on to those temperatures for that time? Would I be better off going to Economy 7 to take advantage of their better night rates?

Fire_Fox

You haven't said what sort of heaters you have (storage, radiant panel, other?) nor what the insulation is like in the flat?

Premier_2

Are you sure you are on E10 as you only quote 2 rates? E10 is 3 rates. What is the control rate?

What type of heating do you have? Is it some form of electrical powered central heating via radiators (and presumably a massive thermal store tank)?
If so, what size electrical heater/boiler is it, as it being on for just 1 hour doesn't seem enough.

Or don't you have any of this, in which case why are you on E10 or even possibly looking at E7?

triggerhappy_2

I'm not too familiar with heating systems at all really, so apologies if this makes no sense. There's a big water tank in a cupboard which looks not dissimilar to this in shape and size:



The are more switches and things involved than in that picture, which from memory includes a pressure gauge and a tall, narrow white metal box with a couple of lights on the front (apologies, I realise this is extremely vague, I'll have a better look this evening when I get home.)

And here's my last (much cheaper) bill. Definitely looks like Economy 10 with only two rates to me:



Putting it on for just one hour was an attempt to reduce usage... have I missed something and it actually makes things worse only having it on for an hour? My main aim is to use as little as possible whilst still being able to shower for work and not actually cause myself ill health due to the cold!

Thanks for any help!

Premier_2

That's a standard hot water tank with an immersion heater at the top. (but it's not insulated!). About 3 foot tall. The pipe coming out the side means it has another way of heating too, i.e. a boiler.

The tall white metal box sounds like it could be an electrical boiler which you'd need to power that huge radiator.

But I don't see anything that allows you to store heat, neither storage heaters nor a huge hot water tank (that water tank would probably go cold in about 30-60 mins driving that radiator unless constantly heated)

Therefore, so far, I can't see any reason for you to be on E10 or even E7 which is designed to offer low rate electricity for certain periods (which you need to use to store heat) but usually result in you paying slightly higher rates (about 10%) compared to a single rate tariff the rest of the time.

triggerhappy_2

Premier wrote: »

That's a standard hot water tank with an immersion heater at the top. (but it's not insulated!). About 3 foot tall.

The tall white metal box sounds like it could be an electrical boiler which you'd need to power that huge radiator.

But I don't see anything that allows you to store heat, neither storage heaters nor a huge hot water tank (that water tank would probably go cold in about 30-60 mins driving that radiator unless constantly heated)

Therefore, so far, I can't see any reason for you to be on E10 or even E7 which is designed to offer low rate electricity for certain periods (which you need to use to store heat) but usually result in you paying slightly higher rates (about 10%) compared to a single rate tariff the rest of the time.

That's not my actual water tank, just a similar one I found online. Mine is insulated, but otherwise the same. There is an attic, but I've never noticed any kind of water tank up there - I'll have a look tonight.

I have another one of those radiators, and two half size ones

Any idea why I only have two rates for economy 10? I can't check them on their site as it's not a listed rate! I'm only going to be here for another 6 months, do you think it's worth changing the rate?

Thanks again, Premier.

dunloadin

The white box with flashing lights is the heating element for your central heating system (think of it as being an electric combi boiler). Eco10 is the correct metering for this type of central heating, what you need to do is set up the timer for your heating to come on when the Eco10 is giving you the cheap rate. Normally you get 2 hours in the morning, 3 hours in the afternoon and 5 hours in the evening; check the times, they may be on the meter (most are), if not find out what they are.

The hot water tank is just a hot water tank, again try to have this on when your getting cheap rate.

Eco10 is a two read tariff in Scotland as far as I'm aware, though there may be differences in the regions. The only three read tariff in normal use is Comfort Plus (and you definatley dont have that).

Dont even think about changing to Eco7, unless you want to be heating your flat through the day on the high rate only.

Premier_2

Whilst the exact timings for Econony 10 may change by area, a typical example is given here:

http://cfe.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/cfe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=4731&p_created=1126537482&p_sid=Wf2JxSTj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MzYsMzYmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0wJnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9RWNvbm9teSAxMA**&p_li=&p_topview=1

Unless there is some method of storing heat, in the recent cold spell if the OP was only getting 2 hours of heat between 5.30pm and 10pm, it would explain why the OP was feeling so cold so often.

Note also the comment in the above link regarding the possible difficulties someone may encounter when trying to switch supplier and/or tariff

john1

Triggerhappy

In you posting re photo The radiatior in the far left corner of the room pic is what appears to be a normal hot water radiator
I am 99.9999% sure that you do not have a storage heater and the one shown will not retain any heat as they are designed to radiate heat immediatly.

The only way these type of radiators would work efficiently on electricity is by having one central "huge" heat storage core which heats the water for distribution to the radiators

If you cylinder is basically the same as shown on the photograph you dont have the correct system installed for efficient use of electricity for heating

I am sorry to say your system appears to me to be completly wrong for your E10 application

dunloadin

In you posting re photo The radiatior in the far left corner of the room pic is what appears to be a normal hot water radiator
I am 99.9999% sure that you do not have a storage heater and the one shown will not retain any heat as they are designed to radiate heat immediatly.

I'm 100% sure there's no storage heaters, he states as much in the post. He has a wet central heating system powered by electricity.

The only way these type of radiators would work efficiently on electricity is by having one central "huge" heat storage core which heats the water for distribution to the radiators

Not true, the most efficient way of heating a wet system with electricity is by using a ground or air sourced heat pump. They use about 25% of the power his current heater does; however, the landlord has gone for the cheapest to install as opposed to the cheapest to run.

If you cylinder is basically the same as shown on the photograph you dont have the correct system installed for efficient use of electricity for heating.

The cylinder in the photo is a hot water tank, as found in any house, the central heating is a seperate enclosed system.

I am sorry to say your system appears to me to be completly wrong for your E10 application

No it is not, E10 is for use in this type of heating system (or with panel and underfloor heating). There is no point in having E7 unless he only wants to have cheap rate heating whilst sleeping.

dunloadin

Premiers link is for Heatwise/Eco10, I forgot to mention Eco10 differs in Scotland; heres a good link to show the difference....note the types of heating it's meant for.

http://www.heatandcool.co.uk/13.html

Note the difference in times.