Lloyds TSB cocked up, now want money from me! Am i in the right here?

mrjam

Hi everyone.

I used to hold an account with Lloyds TSB, basically it was a debit card account with NO OVERDRAFT in place, just a simple money in, money out account. I lost my debit card and phoned them to cancel the card, they said it had been done and sent me a new one out as normal. I used this new card for 3 months when one day, on my statement appeared a transaction using the OLD card for £70, now 2 things, firstly.... if i have no money in my account, my card cannot be used as i have no overdraft, i know this after trying to spend £9.99 in a shop and being declined as i had £9.95 available. This money was taken when i had NO money in my account, and also 3 months AFTER cancelling the card, it was to a company called KEBBLE LTD and i have no idea who these are, i contacted Lloyds in anger saying my card had been cancelled and id been using the new card for 3 months by this point, so how can anyone take money from a card that has 1, been cancelled, and 2, had no money in? I got a standard letter back totally ignoring my points and telling me the funds were to be repaid, i told them i wasnt repaying the £70. Now, since that time, lloyds have allowed £810 worth of money to be taken from a card i cancelled over a year ago now, i just got a letter from a debt collector telling me im to pay £810 immediately, i am now going to go to a solicitor with this but i just wanted to make sure, i am in the right here arent i, and going to a solicitor is the right thing to do? I dont care wether its £1 or £100,000, i arent paying a debt off which is nothing to do with me but more to do with Lloyds TSB's total **** up.

Just to verify, the original card which i lost, i had never used anywhere other than cash machines, i never bought online or in shops with it, purely for security, i only used it to withdraw cash.

So to summarise, it was an account with no overdraft, the card couldnt be used unless money was in there. The card had been cancelled for 3 months and i was happily using my new card when this transaction for £70 appeared, followed by over the last 9 months more and more totalling some £810. If a card can still be used when cancelled, whats the point in cancelling it, and how can it be used when there were no funds available? Its all a great mystery and lloyds wont even talk to me about it now (not that they would discuss anything other than getting the money back in the first place) and just tell me to deal with the debt collectors.

Thanks for all your help.
Jam

pmduk

Have you put all this in writing to them? ask them to put it through their formal complaints procedure,

choc_mouse

(How do you tell which card was used?)

It sounds like you're going about it the wrong way. You're claiming there are unauthorised payments coming out of your account but you're complaining the account has gone overdrawn. Instead, you should report your card and/or account as being stolen and also inform the police.

You should request the bank to freeze your account if more money is still coming out of it without your authorisation.

mrjam

choc_mouse wrote: »

(How do you tell which card was used?)

It sounds like you're going about it the wrong way. You're claiming there are unauthorised payments coming out of your account but you're complaining the account has gone overdrawn. Instead, you should report your card and/or account as being stolen and also inform the police.

You should request the bank to freeze your account if more money is still coming out of it without your authorisation.

Hi, i know which card was used as it shows the last 4 digits of the particular card under the item on the statement. I sent them 3 letters asking them to freeze my account but they said they couldnt until the overdrawn balance was repaid in full, at that point £233. I reported the card as lost to the police when i cancelled it with Lloyds but they never do seem too interested. I firstly reported to lloyds the unauthorised payments, they responded with a letter saying the balance was to be brought back to £0.00, i then complained further saying this card had been cancelled months ago and i havent used it, and these are fradulent, i then received a letter from the so called "Customer Services Manager" stating that even though the card was cancelled, sometimes they can still be used??? This seems ludicrous to me, how can a card be used when it has been cancelled, thats one point on its own, the second point is how can a cancelled card be used when no funds are available, they never responded to this letter, when i called them to discuss it was like talking to a wall with the indian representatives, they ended up asking wether i would like a new card, they just couldnt grasp what i was telling them so that led nowehere. Trust me, i have gone the calm and understanding route with this one, but now a bill for £810 has turned up, i am no longer calm and no longer understanding with them, not 1 penny of the £810 has been spent by me, and they cannot give me anymore information on who this KEBBLE LTD are, apparently its down to me to find out...... Honestly im at the end of my teather with this one, which is why im quite happy to pay a solicitor £1,000 rather than them £810 just due to the principle of the matter. Banks are really beginning to grate on every single person in this country, and the courts back them no matter what, legalised robbery and us normal working class are the victims.

choc_mouse

Thanks for the info jam - I've never used my debit card - lol, so didn't know it shows the last 4 digits.

OK. Firstly, it is possible to take money from a cancelled or expired card. Don't know why but it is possible in general (not just LTSB).

Secondly, the banks can allow "unauthorised overdrafts" by honouring payments even though you don't have the money in your account. This way they can charge you those "unauthorised overdraft fees".

What I find strange is that LTSB haven't acknoledged any unauthorised transactions. I searched on Companies House and there isn't a "KEBBLE LTD". There are a couple of environment companies with a similar name and a "KEBBIE LIMITED" and google also throws up an estate agent.

Have you tried explaining the situation to your branch manager rather than via the helplines?

mrjam

choc_mouse wrote: »

Thanks for the info jam - I've never used my debit card - lol, so didn't know it shows the last 4 digits.

OK. Firstly, it is possible to take money from a cancelled or expired card. Don't know why but it is possible in general (not just LTSB).

Secondly, the banks can allow "unauthorised overdrafts" by honouring payments even though you don't have the money in your account. This way they can charge you those "unauthorised overdraft fees".

What I find strange is that LTSB haven't acknoledged any unauthorised transactions. I searched on Companies House and there isn't a "KEBBLE LTD". There are a couple of environment companies with a similar name and a "KEBBIE LIMITED" and google also throws up an estate agent.

Have you tried explaining the situation to your branch manager rather than via the helplines?

Hi Choco,

I also searched, and searched, and searched and couldnt find anything online or through companies house matching Kebble Ltd, i found the few environment agencies as you mentioned, and contacted them but as i suspected they knew nothing of it and were rather baffled by me calling, i can understand their position.

I did go into my branch to speak to the guy who opened my account, he was the nicest guy i had met when opening my account, however when i went in with this, he tried to convince me i must have paid for something to this so called "Kebble Ltd", obviously i stressed i hadnt and after 30 minutes it eventually ended in him telling me he couldnt deal with it and it would be passed further up the line, to which again i heard nothing. This was just before i received the letter from the customer services manager so im presuming this was not only as a result of my letter, but of his raising the complaint further.

Now lloyds wont speak to me about the issue and say deal with the debt collectors as the account had been closed, this makes me laugh, i asked them to do this when the account had 1 transaction on it for £70 and they told me cards can be used when cancelled, they told me the account couldnt as it was overdrawn, yet they will happily let this company take money again and again over the course of many months upto the amount of £810 before closing the account themselves, hmm... something smells fishy here and to be fair, an inside job has crossed my mind a few times. Bear in mind if i try and pay for something in a store when i have no money available, it never lets me have it, so why should it for this mysterious "Kebble Ltd"..... none of it makes any sense.

I am going to pay £45 to see a solicitor later this week/weekend, to discuss, i really would rather pay double the amount of this bill to a solicitor to get rid of the issue than pay lloyds £810 and this scam of a company Kebble Ltd which actually doesnt exist in the governments eyes at least.

Thanks for your help Choco.

choc_mouse

From what you're saying, I don't think you've done anything wrong. LTSB should have acted the moment you told them about the first transaction and since they've closed your account and called in the debt collectors, there's not much you can do with them as you say. Not sure what the legal position is now so you're doing the right thing by approaching a solicitor.

Eydon

It sounds to me like there is a recurring payment set up on your old card. You need to establish if this was set up before or after you reported your old card lost. If it was before, then LTSB are correct to honour the payments. If it was after, then they are wrong. You are absolutely certain that there were never any payments to this company before you reported your card lost? If you are, do you still have a copy of the letter that you sent to LTSB disputing the first transaction?

You really need to find out who this company is. The bank should be able to help you with this.

mrjam

Eydon wrote: »

It sounds to me like there is a recurring payment set up on your old card. You need to establish if this was set up before or after you reported your old card lost. If it was before, then LTSB are correct to honour the payments. If it was after, then they are wrong. You are absolutely certain that there were never any payments to this company before you reported your card lost? If you are, do you still have a copy of the letter that you sent to LTSB disputing the first transaction?

You really need to find out who this company is. The bank should be able to help you with this.

Hi Eydon,

I never set up any payment with anyone on that card, i only ever used the card to withdraw cash, that i know for certain.

The bank would not give me ANY information on the company in question and were very rude in fact, telling me it was my responsibility to remember where i had used my card, obviously this just further riled me bearing in mind i had told them countless times i hadnt used this card.

Anyway, solicitor it is.

Thanks for your response.

fischer79

I think Eydon might be onto something by saying its a reoccuring payment that has been set up and not a physical use of the card (i.e. in an ATM or shop).
Ask an advisor (should be able to do this over the phone) what direct debits and standing orders are being shown on the account. They should be able to tell you via their CINS system. If its not that I would go down a complaint to the chief exec route (threating FOS action) for a speedy response.

pmduk

Why not ask the bank for details of ALL transactions to Kebble? This would highlight if something was set up while you were using the original card. Otherwise I'd now be considering the Financial Ombudsman.