Survey wrong

anna.bloom

We had a Home Buyers survey that missed off many things, and it has cost us a lot to put right. We have a lot of evidence and have a good case against the surveyor.

My question is, does anyone have any experience of this?

We have two options to chose the Surveyors Ombudsman Scheme or a no win no fee solicitor.

Is a court more likely/ solicitors more likely to negotiate a good settlement than an independant scheme.

Thanks for advice, in advance.

anna.bloom

The surveyor missed off rising damp, wall tie corrosion, asbestos and wood worm infestation.

A lot of these problems have related costs, ie plastering, replacement materials for where the asbestos has been taken away. Delays to the building work, meaning we cannot get into our new house, etc..

House_Hunter

I take it you had read through your survey's small print?

We did with ours and it clearly states, although not explicitly mentioned there is still a chance that asbestos could be encountered and that a thorough inspection by a reputable independent company should be made with regards damp and wood worm.

keith969

Wouldn't have expected a homebuyer's survey to have picked up on those things. Maybe the rising damp, but maybe not, as much of the time it is misdiagnosed even by 'experts'.

As always when buying a house, caveat emptor.

macman

A Home Buyer's report is not a full structural survey, or anything like. It's basically a building society ensuring that the property is worth the mortgage they are advancing.
In paritcular I don't see how a visual inspection (which is all an HBR is) can reveal asbestos or wall tie corrosion?
If the rising damp and woodworm have visible evidence then they should have been noticed.

dampdaveski

Wall tie corrosion can be visible by horizontal cracking in external pionting, though this is not the sole means of determining it.
as for the rising damp / woodworm. The general way the homebuyers reports are done are that the surveyor will notice something that demands further investigation from a specialist surveyor.
IF your report recommended that you obtain a report from a specialist surveyor regarding the damo/woodworm/wall ties and asbestos and you didn't call anyone in, then your case might be difficult. However IF the homebuyers report basically said everything was peachy you may well have a case.
I'm sure David Aldread will furnish you with a mass of information on this post (that wasn't meant as an insult either David )
Hope this helps
DD

David_Aldred

Hi Anna,
Specific cases will vary so do not act upon the enclosed comments but generally my experienece where I have done expert witness reports for this type of thing is the client needs to be relentless to see it through and you really need to be quite on the ball with the way you approach the matter if you are to get the results you want and without crippling you with the expense of entering into dispute.

Be aware that just because it was a Home Buyer Survey the duty of care owed is the same whether that survey was a valuation, a Home Buyers or a Full Structural. Before diving in the thing that you really need to have in mind was did the surveyor act with reasonable care and skill of a person in their profession such that a competant surveyor would have found a paper trail of evidence that either led them to discover the problems you mention or if their access to inspect was restricted such that they could not follow that paper trail did they adequately place you on notice of the risk with a recommendation for further investigation in order to protect you from suffering a loss.

Rising dampness can only be confirmed by laboratory analysis as described with Building Research Establishment (BRE) Digest 245 but the surveyor should have used his damp meter to detect areas of concern to walls and timbers at risk of decay requiring further investigation.

If wood boring insect damage was present and reasonable to have been seen by the surveyor then the surveyor should have advised you of the damage noted and the risk of that infestation being active such that it should be further investigated.

Wall tie corrosion is often sampled with use of an illuminated endoscope which many Chartered Surveyors fail to carry. However that does not mean the surveyor should not have considered wall tie corrosion and advised you of the risk if applicable to that particular property and many properties with wall tie problems are surprisingly not that old. Their advice upon the matter should amongst other things have taken into account the age of the property, the exposure of the property, any external or internal visible evidence of wall tie corrosion which may or may not present itself as cracking / bulging of walls, the type of mortar used (some mortars are acidic and accelerate wall tie corrosion).

For large claims the vast majority of cases do not actually get to court as the surveyors insurers often settle the matter before it reaches that stage irrespective of who is at fault because it is cheaper to do so and accordingly your persistance may well pay off if you can prove your case past the surveyors typical initial denial of liability.

With regard to the damp / wall tie / woodworm report you will need a truly independent expert witness report doing from somebody experienced in this type of work. A contractors report will not suffice as they are seen to have a conflict of interest. Such independent specialist surveyors can be found within the Property Care Association (PCA) website under the section find a member and then selecting Freelance Surveyor or Consultant (the rest are contractors looking for work) and you having a chat with one in your area. Common sense suggests you get somebody good because you will only get one hit at it.

The 'in house' RICS arbitration scheme I personally am not a great lover of because of the suspicion it is as an old boys network no matter what the RICS claim. If you opt for court you also need to be wary of the meter running on the legal fees if you are paying yourself (last year a solicitor wanted £270 just to read one of my reports - yes just read not do anything and a typical solicitors fee was £170 per hour).

If you go for a no win no fee alternative the law firm will usually want to have a serious look at the expert witness report you will have to obtain in order to judge the likelihood of success before taking it on (they are not daft and want to judge if it is a winner). Beware / be prepared for the case drowning in red tape as both sides bounce letters / appointments to re-inspect etc and this can go on for months.

I have known clients just run with my independent survey reports detailing the negligence to the county court and cut out the legal advisors altogether but a client has to fairly talented to do that though if the damages sought are within the small claims court limit it can be a fast route for little outlay for the cleint.

In this case however from the things you list I think you would likely exceed the small claims court limit. Hope this helps, please have a look at my other posts on this forum, kindest regards, David Aldred Independent damp timber and wall tie surveyor

ormus

in a nutshell. you are wasting your time.

buyer beware.

dander

Really interesting replies from David Aldred and damp daveski there. I think it was the homebuyers survey I had when I last bought - was the one that did more than the basic valuation but wasn't full structural. I certainly got the impression from mine that it was all very carefully worded to avoid any liability for pretty much anything, interesting to know that they can be liable sometimes. Mine made it very clear that they didn't move floor-coverings, furniture etc and they'd recommend contacting specialists for absolutely everything, so there was very little wriggle-room for claiming that they missed anything. I don't think there was anything that had a categorical all-clear, everything had caveats.

I would certainly be inclined to get the survey out and read it very carefully with a cool and honest head and ensure that there really is something to fight.

Dry_Rot

The wall tie corrosion is an interesting one to look at. All surveyors should be well aware that wall tie corrosion may be a problem in any house built with cavity walls prior to 1981. In practice though, pre war houses are usually suspect (many post war houses are actually worse). A few surveyors automatically warn of this with a paragraph in the report on the lines off..."This house is of an age and type which is known to be at risk of wall tie corrosion, you should have the condition of the wall ties checked by a competent specialist'.

Whilst the above is designed to put you on notice, in practice the bland and casual wording is insufficient to raise alarm in the buyer and so the advice is often ignored. And because the lenders are not excited by wall tie corrosion any more, it is not made a condition of the loan; to have them checked or any work carried out.

First time buyers in particular are at risk in these cases, where the estate agent gets involved, on the lines of "It's not a mortgage condition so forget about it".

If it were challenged in court it would be on the lack of weight applied to the issue. Wall tie replacement can be very costly, particularly if the property is cavity wall insulated or pebble-dashed. Furthermore, if left, the problem can result in severe weakness of the outer skin of brickwork - bulges and collapses are rare, but do happen.

Surveying for the problem is easy and cheap so if you have a wall tie problem it looks like you've been let down