1yr in to my IVA - still confused and angry

Choo_Choo_4

Skintflint it would seem that you are tarring all IVA Companies with the one brush here ... If someone gets bad advice from their doctor does that mean that every doctor has to be slated and avoided at all costs?

Of course there are IVA Companies / Insolvency Practitioners out there who use unethical and immoral practice to attract business and certainly break the rules - this is what gives the industry a bad name (Kaya for one has highlighted this) but that is not to say that ALL Insolvency Practitioners are the same. It is a heavily regulated industry where boxes must be ticked all the time and the uncovering of such tactics can prove very costly to those caught performing BAD PRACTISE - even as a one-off ...

There are a number of companies in this industry however who pride themselves in putting the customers needs first and you will find that they feature well on any of the IVA Comparison sites etc ...

If a company is only putting forward IVAs then certainly they'll push to make this work, the same with DM Companies ... but most of the bigger boys out there are experienced in recommending whichever solution is best for the individual and must explain ALL options not just the one that's most profitable for the company. These companies will NOT charge a FEE for the advice they give and as I say in most of my posts - NEVER PAY ANYONE FOR ADVICE (as I think I've noticed Charco has highlighted on a number of occasions too to give him his dues... )

Anyone looking for information on debt solutions can find this on the internet. For someone to pay a huge (or any) upfront fee for this is MAD! But people is desperate circumstances do silly things in the hope to make things better. The cowboys out there who charge £500 for the privilege of telling someone an IVA is their best option and then pass them onto the IP Company to carry it out should have the book thrown at them! It's highly unethical and wrong ... and the next person in line tends to be the one to get the wrath of it.

Jimbo - you're right .. we could do most things for ourselves but if a job wants doing right then we'll often find ourselves going to the Professional for exactly that - the former can sometimes prove more costly!

Yes Skintflint - companies DO lie, BUT you wouldn't buy the first car you see when you go into a garage - then surely the same goes when you're looking for an IVA / DMP ... Get advice from 2 or 3 and then compare it - it won't take too long to work out who's telling lies then ...

Finally... to say an IVA is just a 5/6 year bankruptcy - is it really?
And is this really the point?

No-one intentionally sets out to run up £40-50k in debt. It's not a nice situation to find yourself in but not everyone looking for a debt solution wants to go bankrupt - they don't even WANT to do an IVA but they want to be seen as doing the honourable thing by repaying their debts.

Bankruptcy isn't an option for some people - army, police officer, counsellors .. so what then?

An IVA is an alternative to bankruptcy - in order for creditors to accept an IVA proposal it has to be more lucrative to the creditors - they must get a better return than they would if the client were to go bankrupt ... remember it was actually the creditors who initially brought about the IVA in the hope that less people would go bankrupt in turn being of benefit to them (but alas the goalposts continue to move)

skintflint103

Choo Choo I actually do agree with you, i am not IVA bashing I always ay and IVA is there to protect assetts and careers. Look back I do say that. The point is they have to be appropriate,and as you say not ALL companies are bad.Just as all companies advising on getting out of IVAs are not. In fact many of those companies advise people to go into them IF IT'S APPROPRIATE. In reality where I inhabit, people are so frightened and swayed by @govt back schemme rights of 70% of debts legally' that they clutch the first proffered straw. They are told in all circumstances that I have seen that BK is bad they will ose every thing and go in press. In reality land this happens and people reading this will know I'm right with few exception. If IVAs were not such huge money spinners then why are fortunes being spent on those press adds and websites. So Bankrupt cant get credit card loan mortgae for 1 yr plus a clear up time after that. IVA cant get credit card loan mortgae for 5 yr plus a clear up time after that . Both come off register 3 months after finished, 1yr bk or after 5 IVA explain to me cos I'd love to know the difference. If people want to repay some debts then why not do as Jimbo suggests and do it them selves? If approriate to your circumstances go IVA again if appropriate go BK . But know comparison not the hype. Fact is if there was no money in it would they be so 'helpful' ?when this site thrives on the advice 'get free advice'.

Choo_Choo_4

It's quite hard to follow you Skintflint - do IVA if appropriate - it will protect assets / careers .. versus NO to IVA - due to lies, companies charging a fee, bankruptcy being a shorter term solution ...

OF COURSE BANKRUPTCY IS A SHORTER TERM SOLUTION but as previously mentioned if you go to a reputable firm this will be explained to you - all options MUST be and final decision is that of the individual ...

If client has nothing to lose - living in rented accommodation etc with no assets then bankruptcy is always going to be the CHEAPER option but not everyone is looking for this - again the individual's choice ...

I'm not sure exactly if JIMBO was advising people to DO THERE OWN IVA ...
Certainly ANYONE can negotiate with their creditors and come to an ARRANGEMENT - it will never be a IVA ( this is a legally binding document ) - a verbal agreement over a phone call does not mean that creditors will not renege on this ... I don't even think you have to ask for answers to this - it's obvious from the many posts, where people are at their wits end, just praying that the threatening phone calls will stop.

I think Jimbo's point is that while you CAN come to an arrangement with your creditors some people prefer to go to the experts to do it for them ...

You could change the timing belt in your car but might pay someone to do it instead.
You could have a nice patio laid out back but might pay someone to do it instead.
You could teach yourself to read and write - but most people prefer to go to school to learn from those who are paid to do that job.

Travel agents are still in business - WHY? Sure we can just book all our holidays online - and to think that they are charging us to do it?!

You seem to have a gripe with a few companies - so why not just advise people who to stay away from ... problem solved?
If companies are using scare tactics to attract clients then this should not be allowed.

skintflint103

Choo Choo , You seem to be re-gurgitating my lines but in a negative way. there seems to be a pre-disposition from some contributors on this site that IVS are the only way and Bankruptcy is a total no no. That no-one should pay for advice unless it's to an IVA company, and that's ok because they're all 'reputable' and give good advice. This dos'nt seem to square with the reality of those people who i am meeting and spaeking to. Admittedly I'm only speaking to people who don't have a problem or have just accepted that their IVA is good in their case. Fine that's o.k. . however people don't know if they are speaking to a reputable company as companies never spend tens of thousands advertising that they are unreputable do they? I am not here to be engaged in pointless point scoring, only to say IVS are often inapprpriate and are often mis sold .Even the CAB say this . People should understand that an IVA is a 5 year bankruptcy with another name that is appropriate for some but certainly not all. I have had so many people tell me they've been told 'you'll lose your house' (even in neg equity)'they'll come and take your furniture' 'you'll be in the local paper' All designed to mislead for a fee driven industry worth millions..

Choo_Choo_4

DO NOT PAY FOR ADVICE TO ANYONE.

When I say do not pay for ADVICE - this is specifically directed to those individuals who might go to a company posing as an IVA Provider who will charge £300/£400/£500 for advice and then pan them off to someone to do the work.

Advice should always be free no matter what solution you are looking for.

Skintflint - everyone is entitled to their opinion which is the advantage of a forum like this - people can come on seeking advice and get lots of different opinions and then decide which advice has been of most benefit.

EVERY debt solution has it's purpose and serves many people well.

I happen to believe that a DMP should be a shorter term solution for people and is ideal at times when people find themselves on maternity leave etc ...
They can go on for very long terms and some people are fine with this but then there are other shorter term solutions ...

Like an IVA ...
And shorter again Bankruptcy.

Kopite - you said that CCCS only advised on IVA & DMP - Bankruptcy is indeed the 3rd solution that the IP should also discuss with you x

skintflint103

Choo choo you mirror my words succinctly, advice whether about iva,dmp, bankruptcy should be free prior to a decision. No body works for free even the CCCS is funded by banks etc . Even going bankrupt is not the easy form fill that some peole seem to beleive, if your situation warrants advice to act, then be prepared to pay a little or suffer a lot. We at last seem to be getting some balance here and not just an IVA fest. This is my only motive.

Charco_2

advice whether about iva,dmp, bankruptcy should be free prior to a decision. No body works for free even the CCCS is funded by banks

But what you don't seem to be grasping Skint, is that there ARE companies that advise you for free! If an IVA is your best option the they'll get paid for supplying and managing it. If Bankruptcy is your option then they'll spend some time going through this with you too - for free! If a DMP is your best option then they'll help with that - and only get paid for the work they do, not the advice!

Your twisted view of the whole debt industry is skewed... and i have my views on why that is, based on the few incoherent posts you've thrown up here (NB - a bit of punctuation won't cost you anything, Skint!)

If you take your argument to it's natural conclusion then everybody would simply go Bankrupt!

A DMP will cost you £250 a month for 122 months (or longer) with no guarantee that interest or charges will be frozen so everybody should go into IVAs

BUT

An IVA will last 60 months, with payments of £250 every month.

HOWEVER

A Bankruptcy is the answer to all your problems

EVERYBODY GO BANKRUPT! WOOHOO!!!!!

skintflint103

Sorry for punctuation I'm not paid by an IVA co (or anyone else) The line always seems to be that IVA companies will give free unbiased advice. Not true in my long experience. If you have equity or expensive possessions or a career that prohibits bankruptcy then an IVA or DMP is best dependant on the amount of debt and personal circumstance. But if you have no assetts and no career or moral issues, a bankruptcy is not anything to be afraid of. There seems to be a big bias to high fee earning IVAs here and I have my suspicions why. Look at your own post above, you conveintiently fail to point out that in the IVA there will be a yearly, and in the case of Blair Endersby a 6 monthly reveiw. And this is to reduce the payment right? Yeah right. Also did we talk about the mortgage restriction and subsequent extraction of equity in month 54. No? why not? what about if that remortgage can't be got? oh a 12 month extension. Deception by admission is still Deception my friend. No body wants IVA, BK, or DMP but horses for courses. ,.,;;,.,/.;/ here's a few bits of punctuation to keep you happy. Any form asking 'have you been bankrupt' also asks' have you compounded with creditors ' so lets tell the whole story an IVA is a 5 year bankruptcy with payments, suitable over bankruptcy in certain cases. The point is nobody makes a fortune advising on other than IVAs

Charco_2

skintflint103 wrote: »

Sorry for punctuation I'm not paid by an IVA co (or anyone else) The line always seems to be that IVA companies will give free unbiased advice.
No, the line here is no company should ask you for money for advice, if they do, walk away because you CAN get it for free if you look around. Feel free to speak to a number of different companies - I don't suppose any advice can truly be unbiased you just have to hope that by the time it comes to you making a decision, you're well enough informed to take an educated and balanced view of what you should do for your future.

Not true in my long experience. If you have equity or expensive possessions or a career that prohibits bankruptcy then an IVA or DMP is best dependant on the amount of debt and personal circumstance. But if you have no assetts and no career or moral issues, a bankruptcy is not anything to be afraid of.
Not sure what "moral issues" has to do with it!?
Do what's best for you! You didn't go out to deliberately run up unmanagable debts, you certainly don't owe the banks a lifetime of purgatory. The various debt soutions available suit different situations. Bankruptcy is no walk in the park, it's not like you're abandonning your debts for some picnic so there are certainly no moral issues.

There seems to be a big bias to high fee earning IVAs here and I have my suspicions why

You haven't been on here long have you?
They HATE IVAs and IVA companies on here!

Look at your own post above, you conveintiently fail to point out that in the IVA there will be a yearly, and in the case of Blair Endersby a 6 monthly reveiw.

Nothing "convenient" about it. It don't see where it would have come up - I'm answering a question, not writing a text book for exam purposes!

And this is to reduce the payment right? Yeah right.
No, it's not to reduce the payments, don't be ridiculous, why would it. It's just a legal requirement to monitor the debtor's situation. If the debtor find himself in a position to increase his monthly contributions, then he SHOULD increase his monthly contributions. If nothing has changed (no pay increase, no bonuses, no death of rich auntie Ethel) then there will be no need to increase the repayments either! However, if the debtors' situation takes a move in the other direction and gets worse, then there is some scope to reduce the monthly repayments - but it's likely that the debtor will have contaceted the IP already instead of waiting for the annual review. IF CIRCUMSTANCES CHANGE FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE THEN IT STANDS TO REASON THAT YOUR MONTHLY CONTRIBUTIONS WILL CHANGE TOO!

Also did we talk about the mortgage restriction
As already discussed on another thread with you, TWICE, the restriction is a misnomer! It's almost meaningless. It's a protection to alert the IP if the debtor tries to sell their property without addressing their debts. It does not give the IP any rights of action over the house. You do not owe the IP any money so he has nothing to pursue from the equity of your property. However, if you have large debts and want to deal with them through an IVA then it's reasonable that the DEBTOR will release equity - of their own accord - to contribute towards their debts!

And subsequent extraction of equity in month 54. No? why not? what about if that remortgage can't be got? oh a 12 month extension.
Well why not a 12 month extension? If you have equity and debts then why wouldn't you use one to pay the other? I'm beginning to suspect you may just have a mental defficiency!
I have never heard of anyone being suddenly surprised by the fact that they will have to address their equity situation in order to deal with their debts! Do you think that people SHOULDN'T have to release equity if they've got it?

Deception by admission is still Deception my friend.
Do you mean by OMISSION? as in I Omitted some pertinent detail in order to deceive people? I fail to see where? What would it benefit me to deceive anyone on here?

No body wants IVA, BK, or DMP but horses for courses. ,.,;;,.,/.;/ here's a few bits of punctuation to keep you happy. Any form asking 'have you been bankrupt' also asks' have you compounded with creditors ' so lets tell the whole story an IVA is a 5 year bankruptcy with payments, suitable over bankruptcy in certain cases. The point is nobody makes a fortune advising on other than IVAs
DMPs? Nobody make any money out of DMPs?
Is making money a crime - we've established you're retired now but during your working career, did you earn money for services provided?
Nobody is saying that the system is perfect but companies giving fraudulent advice are fraudulent companies - there are measures in place to catch them, regulatory bodies to monitor them and all sorts of government bureaucracy and red tape to make it not worth your while.

If you saw a shoddy sink with a leak out the bottom and rotten damp wood below, would you go on a campaign besmirching the good names of all plumbers? Or would you report THAT SPECIFIC PIECE OF SHODDY WORKMANSHIP? Would you resolve yourself never to use a handyman again or would you simply never use THAT PARTICULAR HANDYMAN?

skintflint103

The point is the people reading can now make a better judgement now that 2/3 sides of the argument are being disected and not glossed over as before. I agree 100% that you pay for a service. But you should have ALL the facts on the service that you choose. I am not here to point the finger to any particular company, what I've seen and heard is pretty much across the board good and bad. But there has been a bias towards IVAs that i simply want to address. Yes you can be clever and say about my hurried typing , I think people are smart enough to know I meant ommision, it dos'nt mean that it dosn't happen and if I can alert people to this blatant and widespread misselling then I'm content to rattle cages. yours most of all , lets face I've prompted you to explain to your own slant lots of detail. That's not for MY benefit I does me no good whatsoever. It's your motives I question my friend.