When is a loft room, not a room?

Sensible_Jess

I've just got the survey (homebuyers) back on the house I am hoping to buy. It has had a partial loft conversion, boarded and carpeted, with a Velux window in the roof looking out to the rear. The conversion is accessed directed by a metal fixed spiral staircase from the first floor, for which a circular wall has been erected in place of the orginal square wall (so some effort has been expended in construction).
When I saw the house initially I was surprised that the loft room was so small and that it was only a partial conversion, but reasoned that not everyone has the money to spend, and maybe the owners wanted to keep some storage space in the loft. They use it as an office and have a futon up there for an guest bed, currently being used by their daughter.

The survey has mentioned a couple of concerning things, a back boiler which needs replacing (which was a surprise as the rest of the house is very modern inc new kitchen and bathroom), and some dampness in the house itself. But the biggest shock was when I got to the flooring section, which states:

'...there is a loft room accessed via a spiral staircase. It should be appreciated that this is not a habitable room and does not have building regulation approval. It does not comply with the building regulations for a number of reasons including: the absence of strengthening to the floor and the lack of provision for fire safety.'

I was stunned at this, and I don't understand why it is not a 'habitable room'. The owner is a builder and I have given him a copy of the survey with it's findings. He has refused to budge on the house price or to look into obtain building regulations consent for the change of use of the loft (and can't explain why it doesn't have it already)
He has offered to remove the staircase, return the wall to it's original shape and board up the opening in the ceiling but I feel that some reduction in the house price would be fair as I am now losing some living space!! (and to be frank, apart from the wall it's not something I couldn't arrange to have done myself)

I also would like to get a builder in to get an estimate of how much it would cost to bring the room up to standard, with a view to negotiating this from the price of the house, but again, the owner has said that he is not willing to negotiate on price, saying that the space was mentioned as a loft room only and not as an extra bedroom. I had thought that was due to the sloping roof (no dormer), the fact there is no door separating it from the rest of the house and the small size of the room (although I've been amazed what some people will still call a 'bedroom').

My solicitor has mentioned that the room as it stands may be a concern for insurance and the mortgage company so I don't think I can leave it as it stands.:(

All advice appreciated!!

S_J

Fire_Fox

If the loft area doesn't have building regulations it's not a habitable room because it may well be unsafe! You have no idea whether the ceiling joists were reinforced to accommodate the new floor and new furniture you'd want to put in a 'proper' room, so it could all one day fall into the rest of the upstairs. You have no idea if the roof trusses were strengthened so that the roof doesn't eventually sag and have to be completely replaced.

If there is no door on the stairwell that doesn't meet fire regulations, and it may be the positioning of the dormers don't meet fire regs either. So you might have a fire, the fire brigade can't get to the person in the loft space and they die from smoke inhalation because there was no door.

To have anyone quote or to get building regs means stripping back the plasterboard so the structure can be revealed, it will probably cost you more than starting from scratch! This builder can't even be bothered to get building regs on his own home and lets his daughter sleep in a room that doesn't meet fire regs, I would be wondering what else he has bodged. Run away.

david29dpo

Couldn't have put it better myself.

poppysarah

If the owner is a builder then perhaps he is a cowboy. Why didn't he get building regulations and do the job properly?
replacing a back boiler can be very expensive so perhaps that's why that hasn't been done. Get quotations for that work.

a_j_mair

As has been said above.

the house value has to be asessed as the loft being just that a loft. They cannot try to sell the house with the loft as a room if there is no consent for the owrks

I would offer what it is worth without any work done and if is not accepted walk away. Could lead to no end of hassle if you then try to get consent, opens a large can of worms

Thrugelmir

The property would have been valued on the basis that the loft space was not a habitable room by the Estate Agents when marketing the property. So why should you expect a price reduction?

Horizon81

Going slightly off topic... What about a boarded out loft? Are these unsafe as well? Granted they aren't classed as a 'room' but many people put all sorts of heavy junk up there - if the floor hasn't been re-inforced isn't there a danger that it could fall through when one box too many gets put up there?

googler

The only sure way of determining the load-bearing capacity is to inspect the joists and the spacing between them. If the ones between the loft and the rest of the house are the same size/spacing as those between ground and first floor, you're generally OK. Might need to consider mounting points and how they connect to the roof frame as well....

I spoke with a surveyor recently who'd bought a new home by a well-regarded housebuilder, and he was told that they recommended owners not to walk around too much in the 'attic', because it wasn't intended as usable space, it was merely a 'roof space' between the ceiling of the upper floor and the pitched line of the roof. No loft conversions on that estate, methinks..... I didn't get invited to 'measure his joists', but the implication would be that they're not as robust as those between the living floors.

JMW77

I'm sure the EA valued the house with the room as it is , so he would know if he had done his job properly that this is called an attic space or attic room ( not Bedroom ) and valued it as such .

So when you look at a house the price is per valuation unless estate agent called it a bedroom when its not.

I have converted by attic into a room ,but i know when i sell it will not be classed as a bedroom even though it is really big.

JMW77

Actually its a bonus having stairs put in so can use this space for storage,its not a negative point .

If you are looking for the extra bedroom then look elsewhere.

LadyLawyer

Stairs being there are a practical bonus but spiral staircases are usually not compliant with building regs and not allowed.

The difficulty with this half done job is that should the local authority discover it they can ask you to take it all down, so even if it's safe (it's not, or there would be a building regs certificate to prove it) from what you can see, you could lose the use of that space entirely. At the moment the property has unauthorised alterations which will be a problem for your solicitor who will need to explain that to your mortgage lender. Either he finishes the job and makes it compliant, provides certificates etc, or takes it away and reduces the price, or you walk.

I had a client a few years ago who had a a loft conversion done fully by a cousin who was a builder - no building regs - in the end she had to take it off the market until she had redone it and had the council out. Nightmare.