Managing agent threaten to court

BitterAndTwisted

Tenants' money is never in the Managing Agents' pockets. Or rather it shouldn't be, especially if they are members of RICS. All tenant monies should be in a separate client bank account administered on the tenants' behalf.

Pay the 2009m demand and dispute the 2008 calcs IN WRITING. If the monies are due to you you will get them back. If you don't pay the 2009 demand how are the Managing Agents to pay for any ongoing liabilities? The next thing, the tenants will be complaining that their services aren't being carried out or the landlord's electricity supply could be cut off.

Stesshead

DVardysShadow wrote: »

There are technicalities relating to leasehold here, Fire Fox is more up this aspect. They could take it up with the lender, but make sure you have a good letter on the record to the Managing Agent which acknowledges a debt for 2009 but details the problem with previous years. you could also make an estimate and send the difference. I think the Managing Agent will be reluctant to to take it too far while he is at fault and I don't think that forfeiture would stand up until the debt was proven - if they took it up with the lender, I think the lender should see that there is no debt yet proven and not want to get too involved. Also, their position would not play well in court. Which is why you want a good letter on the record.

A good letter is crucial at this stage. I will do one and send by special tomorrow.

DVardysShadow

Stesshead wrote: »

I can imagine the managing agent think money is in their pocket, they won't give it back.

For your letter "Please note that if you do not resolve the amount owing to us for 2008 and you take the matter to court, we shall counterclaim accordingly. Please understand that until this matter is resolved, we are only prepared to offer £X as an interim payment. We are of course prepared to pay the full difference between that owed on the 2009 account and our credit on the 2008 account once you address our dispute over the 2008 account, without the need to take the matter to court. Resolution is now dependent upon you addressing the matter of the 2008 account."

Fire_Fox

DVardysShadow wrote: »

There are technicalities relating to leasehold here, Fire Fox is more up this aspect. They could take it up with the lender, but make sure you have a good letter on the record to the Managing Agent which acknowledges a debt for 2009 but details the problem with previous years. you could also make an estimate and send the difference. I think the Managing Agent will be reluctant to to take it too far while he is at fault and I don't think that forfeiture would stand up until the debt was proven - if they took it up with the lender, I think the lender should see that there is no debt yet proven and not want to get too involved. Also, their position would not play well in court. Which is why you want a good letter on the record.

Lenders have nasty habit of paying up, they will definitely pay up if the case goes to court. If you admit a debt the court could easily rubber stamp that, which means you lose costs as well. Paying the difference might mean you buy some time but my preference would be to do things by the book and knock this court case on the head.

Stesshead wrote: »

I can imagine the managing agent think money is in their pocket, they won't give it back.

The law is on your side here, but you need to learn to play the game as I have done. Courts are not places for people that do not know the law, LVTs are reputedly very user friendly. We can point you in the right direction and help you put a case together, at the moment you are not being taken seriously by the management company because you are going about things the wrong way.

Stesshead

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Forfeiture is a last resort with a persistent non-payer, most simple cases of arrears go to court and get added to the mortgage. There are only very limited circumstances where a leaseholder is allowed to withhold payment, so you are not acting within the law at present. Please separate the two issues. Issue one is the overpayment on your 2008 account, which is in dispute (or will be once you have sent a recorded delivery letter quoting the LEASE website and your long lease). Issue two is the 2009 account which you are not disputing AFAIK.

Edited due to cross post: You must pay up immediately. You have NO legal grounds for withholding payment when you have not formally disputed these service charges (the law clearly states in writing). I don't think you even have grounds to ask for the case to be referred to an LVT as you haven't disputed anything formally. I really would not like to test this in court.

Please listen to me, I have spent three years in dispute with my ex-management company and have managed to get away with not paying and not being taken to court by the skin of my teeth. I have been INCREDIBLY organised, recorded delivery letters, reading LVT decisions, learning the legislation better than they know it. I am also paying the new management company as I have no dispute over the current invoices and current service.

I know you champion this field I have been reading some of your posts and learned a lot. First things first, I am now writing a formal letter and will send to managing agent tomorrow. thanks

Fire_Fox

Quote the LEASE website, it really wound my lot up that I knew my rights!

Stesshead

DVardysShadow wrote: »

For your letter "Please note that if you do not resolve the amount owing to us for 2008 and you take the matter to court, we shall counterclaim accordingly. Please understand that until this matter is resolved, we are only prepared to offer £X as an interim payment. We are of course prepared to pay the full difference between that owed on the 2009 account and our credit on the 2008 account once you address our dispute over the 2008 account, without the need to take the matter to court. Resolution is now dependent upon you addressing the matter of the 2008 account."

Many thanks for drafting my letter.I have been thinking about making an offer to them, this is great help!

DVardysShadow

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Lenders have nasty habit of paying up, they will definitely pay up if the case goes to court. If you admit a debt the court could easily rubber stamp that, which means you lose costs as well. Paying the difference might mean you buy some time but my preference would be to do things by the book and knock this court case on the head.

Well, the debt has to be admitted, but equally there is a counterclaim here. If the lender will cave, they need to know about the counterclaim too. [Copy the lender in on correspondence and discuss, I think]

I'm no expert on court, I have won a thing or 2 before court - and the basic principle is that if you ask for some info before it goes to court and it is info you could get in discovery and you need it to sort out exactly how much is owed, the costs meter only starts rolling against you once the info is supplied and you have ahd a chance to digest it

Stesshead

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Lenders have nasty habit of paying up, they will definitely pay up if the case goes to court. If you admit a debt the court could easily rubber stamp that, which means you lose costs as well. Paying the difference might mean you buy some time but my preference would be to do things by the book and knock this court case on the head.



The law is on your side here, but you need to learn to play the game as I have done. Courts are not places for people that do not know the law, LVTs are reputedly very user friendly. We can point you in the right direction and help you put a case together, at the moment you are not being taken seriously by the management company because you are going about things the wrong way.

Indeed I need to learn the rule of the game. And your right, I am at the moment confusing two issues, disputing 2008 invoices does not automatically mean I dispute the 2009 invoice, so I need to either find a good reason to question the 2009 invoice or pay up now and start a new round of chasing refund this time next year if there is surplus:(

Stesshead

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

In that case what you are talking about is a balancing service-charge refund for y/e 2008. How did you calculate your proportionate amount, from the s/c documentation itself or by dividing by the number of flats? These are often not the same. Your proportion should be on the balancing s/c documentation

Do you mean the proportion should be laid out in the balancing s/c documentation? This is exactly what is lacking on the s/c docs and we have been requiring managing agent to provide. Is it by law they have to provide the proportion amount? thanks